TANGENT: Murderbot - Episode 2 (feat. Aaron Carter)

[00:00:14] Speaker A: Hello, and welcome back to. Nope, didn't like that. [00:00:16] Speaker B: Every time Aaron presses markers. Because she's starting. Nope, not doing that one. [00:00:21] Speaker A: Well, the marker's not going to show up in the MP3. [00:00:23] Speaker B: God forbid I help you on anything. [00:00:25] Speaker A: I was just saying I'm doing the editing. Don't worry about it. All right. Nope, didn't like that either. [00:00:30] Speaker B: You didn't even say anything. [00:00:31] Speaker A: I know. [00:00:31] Speaker B: What was. What did you like about? Nothing. [00:00:34] Speaker A: I didn't like starting with the all right. [00:00:36] Speaker B: You were going to start with an all right. [00:00:37] Speaker A: I didn't like it. [00:00:38] Speaker B: I thought you were just, like, yawning or something to get it out. [00:00:40] Speaker A: I didn't like it. [00:00:41] Speaker B: She's. Lord. Yeah, that would. That wouldn't have been good. [00:00:44] Speaker A: All right, so we are back. [00:00:46] Speaker B: And then you start with it. That makes no sense. [00:00:49] Speaker A: Let's talk about Murderbot. So it. We're back with Murderbot episode two, everybody. Hi. Welcome in. See that? Done. We're good. We're in it. All right. We are back with episode two of Murderbot. Yes. That is three. All rights for those playing along at home. God almighty. It's like I've never recorded a podcast before. [00:01:06] Speaker B: Clearly you haven't. [00:01:07] Speaker A: I am joined once again by Sir Aaron Carter. [00:01:09] Speaker B: Hello. Here. Hello. Did you want more for me? [00:01:12] Speaker A: No. You gotta, like, wait until I stop talking, and then you start talking. [00:01:15] Speaker B: Oh, I'm sorry. [00:01:15] Speaker A: Did I talk over at the same time? [00:01:18] Speaker B: Oh, I'm sorry. [00:01:18] Speaker A: And then it was just silent. [00:01:19] Speaker B: I mean, it's fine. [00:01:21] Speaker A: Hi. [00:01:21] Speaker B: Hello. [00:01:22] Speaker A: Okay, I'm here. Good God. All right. We have been sitting here, technically recording for about an hour plus hour and. [00:01:30] Speaker B: A half, gabbing like old women about. [00:01:33] Speaker A: Literally anything but the show we just watched. Because it's just the thing, you know, you start, you say one thing, and then that leads into another topic, and then that leads. And then you're talking about education, and then you're talking about society, and then you're talking about dumb. Here we are an hour and a half later. Yeah, but we watched Murderbot episode two. [00:01:49] Speaker B: We did. [00:01:50] Speaker A: So I guess we're just going to jump into it. [00:01:51] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:01:52] Speaker A: This one will run a little bit. Probably smoother than our first episode, because the first episode of, like, housekeeping and a lot of talking about the general vibe. [00:01:58] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. Now we can kind of just get into, like, we're in the zone of. Of we're in the flow of it. [00:02:03] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:02:03] Speaker B: So, yeah. [00:02:04] Speaker A: So we open on a. A meeting. A meeting of the mind. Secret meeting of Preservation alliance in their hopper. Because Garofin is a paranoid little fucker. [00:02:13] Speaker B: Yep. [00:02:14] Speaker A: Doesn't trust anything from the Company. And there they seem to be, in this moment, intimating that there's a backstory there that I don't think is in the book. Because they're kind of. You get. Everybody in the hopper is very much like, no, we understand why you particularly don't like the Company, and we love you. It's okay. We love you. And I'm like, am I forgetting something? I think we're adding this. [00:02:35] Speaker B: It might be something additional. [00:02:36] Speaker A: I think they're adding. [00:02:37] Speaker B: It's just probably something to the character. [00:02:38] Speaker A: Yeah. A little. They're adding a little color here about why. Why he would be so. So paranoid about. About Murderbot. [00:02:45] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:02:46] Speaker A: I love the. The we love you Goo Goo. [00:02:48] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:02:49] Speaker A: Everybody's. Everybody's little nicknames for Garathan, who is not a man who seems like he wants a nickname from anybody. [00:02:55] Speaker B: Definitely doesn't want anything like that. Yeah. [00:02:57] Speaker A: And Bar is back. Bar is all hopped up on stimulants. [00:03:00] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. From the opening. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. [00:03:02] Speaker A: Is. Is back from. From the med bay. So we. We're getting this plan together. We're. We're talking about. We know something is wrong with the maps. [00:03:10] Speaker B: Yes. [00:03:11] Speaker A: And we want to go see what's wrong with the maps. All right. This all tracks from the book. So they make a little plan. They're gonna go check it out. [00:03:18] Speaker B: Without Murderbot, they have a discussion on who's going to go out there. [00:03:22] Speaker A: Yes. A discussion which, by the way, I don't think makes any sense by sending. [00:03:27] Speaker B: Discussing who goes other or who they chose. Yeah. Dr. Mensah, I don't. [00:03:31] Speaker A: Dr. Mensa going makes sense. Bar Dwash does not. [00:03:33] Speaker B: I think Bardwash was only saying two is secure. We're not taking the SEC unit, which is our security. So let's buddy system this thing at least. [00:03:43] Speaker A: And I mean, if we're gonna buddy system, may as well take the person that literally just got out of the hospital and is on drugs and still in pain. [00:03:50] Speaker B: But she volunteered. [00:03:53] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:03:53] Speaker B: I think that was what it was. [00:03:55] Speaker A: This was a strange. For anybody that did not read the book. This doesn't happen in the book. [00:03:59] Speaker B: No. [00:03:59] Speaker A: They do, in fact, go and check out the area. Like, they pick an area of the map that's messed up and they go check it out. Murderbot goes with them. [00:04:05] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. [00:04:06] Speaker A: And it's actually a very fun little conversation and a fun, fun little decision from Murderbot because it ends up being Murderbot, Mensa, Garothan and I think just those three, but somebody else might also be with them. But I specifically remember that Garathan goes. Because Murderbot thinks very clearly that, like, I don't want Garothan here because I don't like Garothan and I don't want to be around him, but if anybody has to die, I'm fine with it being him. So actually, I'm. I'm glad that he's going with us. [00:04:35] Speaker B: So they probably substituted that moment for what we got with their little conversation later. [00:04:42] Speaker A: Yeah. So they end up leaving Murderbot back behind. But, yeah, this was a. One of the things that's hard, and maybe you'll experience this too. Now that we're watching. Something that you have read as well is trying to separate out what you know of the book and what, like, the consequences of what you know of the book are versus what's happening in the TV show. When something changes, you're like, okay, well, this knocks down all these dominoes, and you have to be like, okay, I don't know about those dominoes. Does it make sense in this moment? [00:05:07] Speaker B: I. I think I experienced that already with the. The previous. The comic book that we did. The Sweet tooth. [00:05:14] Speaker A: Yes. [00:05:14] Speaker B: Yeah. So when I. When I come across it like that, then I'm like, I look to replace of what. What are they going to do? [00:05:21] Speaker A: Right. [00:05:21] Speaker B: So it's like, I know what happens or what's, you know, the motivations for things I look at. How are we going to connect these paths together? How are we going to connect these endpoints together? Excuse me. [00:05:31] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:05:31] Speaker B: So I don't really focus on, like, oh, that's changed. How are we going to. There's no hope to do this. Like, okay, now how. How do we swerve this train back into the station? [00:05:41] Speaker A: So I get stuck on the logic of it. So, like, I. We've. We've changed. Does it. Does it really matter that we've changed? The crew going to just be Mensa and Bara Daj? Yeah, maybe, you know, maybe it matters, maybe it doesn't. I get stuck on the logic of, like, how does this decision make sense? Because I know how the decision in the book makes sense because they walk through it. I'm like, how does that make sense in the TV show? Like, if you're just watching this, does it? And that's. That's hard. That's hard. I think watching an adaptation to kind of separate yourself from the source material. [00:06:07] Speaker B: Sometimes I would think if I had to make, like, a. How does this make sense? Because I. Because I have a couple of thoughts. Bardwash got volunteered herself. The other three that are in the. The throuple, that's their. That's their plot right there. Like, so they're preoccupied. And then what's his name is too suspicious of SEC unit. So that's where his mind is at. So it was kind of just odd man out, like, all right. Even though logistically it doesn't make sense. You take the wounded victim out there. But I think from a writer's standpoint, it was like, well, what are we going to have them do if they're just. If Dr. Minsa goes by herself, just stay here? I mean, I guess you could have just been like, they were still in med bay recovering. Yeah. So I don't know, but I guess they wanted the actress to have more speaking time or something, because even that. [00:07:05] Speaker A: Even then I thought I was like, okay, well, maybe something's gonna happen later when. When Mens is kind of struggling up the hill and. And trying to talk back to the hopper, like, oh, are we gonna run into something where, like, Bardwash has passed out? Because, like, the. Like, something went wrong with the meds and the meds wore off, and now she's in pain. And so, no, I was like, all right, sure, this is. But likely. It's just that, like, that was the leftover character when we had all these other. [00:07:25] Speaker B: That's what I think. Yeah. I think we. We started a couple of other plots and then we were like, oh, you showed up to work today. Let me put. [00:07:33] Speaker A: Yeah, they put you on the call. [00:07:35] Speaker B: Yeah, let me put you on there. [00:07:36] Speaker A: And all of this. Murderbot is watching through the security cameras that the Preservation ox absolutely thinks that they turned off. [00:07:43] Speaker B: Yes. Wait, was he. [00:07:46] Speaker A: Yes, he was, because we see it through the security feed. So he's. Because that's when. When he says something about like, yeah, I heard all that. [00:07:53] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's been too long. It's been an hour, an hour and. [00:07:57] Speaker A: A half since we watched the episode. But yes, Murderbot was, in fact, it was watching all of the feeds the crew thinks it turned off, because that's the first thing Garathan says is I turned off the feeds and then cut to Murderbot watching the feeds. [00:08:08] Speaker B: Yeah. And that's one of the things before on. On the other podcast that I wanted to see. I was like, are they going to do the. The feed like Murderbot watching everybody from the feeds? And I'm glad that they added those in into these both episodes, actually, so. [00:08:21] Speaker A: Far, I was really excited. So we then cut to seeing Murderbot kind of in the common area for the first time this episode. And I was very like, oh, it's back in the suit. All right. We're back in the suit. It's got his helmet on. [00:08:31] Speaker B: That was a funny thing because as soon as you said that, you. As soon as Murderbot walked in, you're like, yes, yes. [00:08:37] Speaker A: Helmet. Murderbot walks in, helmet on. Perfect. We're. Nope. Garothan immediately tells it to take it off. [00:08:42] Speaker B: He said, I know that you have a face now, so I'd like to see it. [00:08:45] Speaker A: And then all the people. Garothan would not give a shit about seeing Murderbot's face. [00:08:50] Speaker B: Out of all the people, the writers would say be like, yeah, we need to see his face. [00:08:55] Speaker A: Well, we. We hired Alexander Skarsgard, and you need to see Alexander Skarsgard. [00:08:59] Speaker B: But that's okay. So that is. That's. That's. That's a big thing, though, because we know that plays into Murderbot's personality of. I want to keep this thing on. Like, but like I said before we watched this show. [00:09:09] Speaker A: Yes. [00:09:09] Speaker B: Like, before we even did any of these podcasts, I was like, you hired Skarsgard. They're going to show Skarsgard hired Pedro. And that was your. That was your argument back. And I was on your side, cuz, like, you came up with some actual good evidence. They hired Pedro and they barely showed his face. And the payoff of, like, finally getting his. It was actually more. Was more impactful because it was like, this is a taboo. We're not supposed to be seeing this. [00:09:35] Speaker A: Because the Murderbot thing is. It's less to me about it being part of Murderbot's personality, which it absolutely is. And it is an important part there. It's more that the moments when Murderbot chooses to remove its helmet are important. [00:09:46] Speaker B: Yes. [00:09:46] Speaker A: There is a reason why it takes off its helmet. It takes off its helmet with Arata because it knows that she's freaking out. [00:09:52] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:09:52] Speaker A: And she's in shock. [00:09:53] Speaker B: Connect. [00:09:54] Speaker A: It needs to have some kind of connection to get her the hell out of there. It later keeps it then keeps its mask on all of the time until Mensa specifically asks it, like, hey, I need you to take your helmet off. I need you. Like, there's a conversation with Mensa that happens that I think we're probably not going to get because it has its helmet off all the time. Mensa's like, I need you. It makes them more comfortable. I need them to see you as, like, a person. [00:10:17] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:10:17] Speaker A: And like, it matters. The moments when Murderbot chooses to not have its helmet on. And then, like, kind of down the line, you know, different. Different things. I'm like, God damn it. [00:10:25] Speaker B: Yeah, they. They. A little. I would say, like, if anything, that's the second type of thing taken away from Murderbot's character. [00:10:33] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:10:34] Speaker B: That. That could add a little more depth to the character. [00:10:37] Speaker A: And we. We. So we get this, like, kind of silly little conversation with Garothan where he's like, you know, take your helmet off. [00:10:43] Speaker B: And care for that conversation. [00:10:45] Speaker A: It's the thing that I don't love about this conversation is that I can see where in the book it's pulling from. And it's pulling from a later conversation. [00:10:53] Speaker B: From the first book. Okay. [00:10:54] Speaker A: It's a later conversation. It's a funnier moment when it happens in the book, and it's a more impactful moment when it happens in the book. And we're pulling that conversation into right now. [00:11:02] Speaker B: You can cut this out. Is it the part where. Yeah, I remember that. [00:11:07] Speaker A: And that is so funny. Yeah, it's so funny. And it works so well in that moment. [00:11:12] Speaker B: But you can't. I mean. Yeah. With the way they. You know. [00:11:15] Speaker A: But they're pulling to bring back. [00:11:16] Speaker B: Yes. They pull that. They pulled it. One of those scenes into now. It just seems like it's an artistic choice by the director that takes another part, takes it away, you know, takes another scene from the book, away from viewers that you won't kind of get there. [00:11:33] Speaker A: And it's a little more on the nose than it. I mean, it's very blunt in the book because you're in Murderbot's head. But I don't think it needs to be as blunt as it is in the. As they're making it in the TV show where, like, Murderbot specifically thinks I don't like eye contact. Garathan specifically, outwardly, says you don't like eye contact. Murderbot is very clearly avoiding eye contact. You could have used one of those things. Didn't need all three of them. [00:11:54] Speaker B: Yeah. And I feel like it was very noticeable, kind of glancing the room. Yeah. [00:11:58] Speaker A: It's interesting because you're so used to seeing in filmmaking and in cinematography, you're so used to seeing actors looking at where exactly your eye knows, quote, unquote, the other character is. [00:12:09] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:12:09] Speaker A: And so it's like you. It's very noticeable that you're seeing an actor look a completely other direction from where your brain knows. [00:12:17] Speaker B: Yeah. Not just the actor doing that, but the way that they're shooting as well because they pull in tight on his face and you can see him. So like the first episode, when Dr. Mince is talking to him after the rescue, Murderbot's not looking even in their direction, just like down into the right or something, literally. And they're. And the camera is tight on his face so you can see like, all right, this is uncomfortable. Like the, the closeness of the camera is also, you know, meant to demonstrate that there's like a claustrophobic type of. It's like it's all close and tight in. So, you know, this is uncomfortable. And then when they switch to the other characters, it's just regular shot just like for everybody. So, like they're doing it with the camera. You don't need to do it with the dialogue. [00:12:58] Speaker A: I know. Like, and you, you certainly don't need to do it with both characters. [00:13:01] Speaker B: Dialogue. For sure. Yeah. [00:13:02] Speaker A: Pick one. [00:13:03] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. So I would say don't dumb it down for the audience. Like, you're. You're really spoon feeding it after a little while. [00:13:09] Speaker A: So it is a funny conversation, though. It is, it is, it's. It's moment for. For comedy. Like, you kind of have the awkward turning of the chair that doesn't roll the. Okay, weirdo. Yeah, it was a very funny line. [00:13:21] Speaker B: Very snarky and very openly hating Garofit. Oh, for sure. [00:13:25] Speaker A: Super openly. [00:13:26] Speaker B: That's fine. [00:13:27] Speaker A: Yes. And like, even the moment of like, let me be anywhere but here switches to the camera and sees like an emotional conversation is like, ew. Okay, this is better. [00:13:36] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:13:37] Speaker A: Like, it's a. It's a good funny moment that I think is maybe just like, I don't really know how this is going, but Garathan clearly thinks something is wrong. [00:13:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:13:47] Speaker A: In a way that is much more blatant than in the book. Grothen in the book clearly has some kind of suspicion that something is going on. But Grothen in the show, like, blatantly calls out the governor module. [00:13:59] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:14:00] Speaker A: In a way that you're like, oh, yeah. I'm like, we could be a little bit more subtle about this. [00:14:05] Speaker B: My thing was, why would it. What do you think is wrong in something? [00:14:11] Speaker A: Right. [00:14:11] Speaker B: That saved one of your friends. [00:14:13] Speaker A: Yes. [00:14:14] Speaker B: What's. What's wrong? That it talked that. Yeah. That it spoke freely. [00:14:18] Speaker A: And I feel like they're going to put something in there about like either the company did something to Garathan or a bot hurt somebody in Groth. I'm trying to remember if that's in the series somehow. I Will record, like, insert here. [00:14:31] Speaker B: Trust has been broken by a bot. [00:14:34] Speaker A: Yeah, that. Like, something happened with a bot. [00:14:37] Speaker B: I can't remember anything like that. But, yeah, I. I would feel like it said multiple times by Garathan. You know, I care about my friends. I love my. My friends. This unit saved one of them, Saved two of them. [00:14:51] Speaker A: His paranoia works in a way in the book that I think is a little bit. Just a little bit amped up too much in the show. [00:14:57] Speaker B: It's very amped up in the show. This is very, like. [00:15:00] Speaker A: Because Robin does not like Murderbot at all at any point in the book as well. It's not like, you know, it's not like things are subtle in the book. It's just a little bit too amped up, I think, in the show. And I'm curious to see where we're gonna go with this. [00:15:12] Speaker B: Well, yeah, I mean, there's how it plays out. [00:15:15] Speaker A: And then we get. Then we get. As I was talking in the last episode, don't shy away from the polyamory. [00:15:20] Speaker B: It's done. [00:15:20] Speaker A: And they're gonna bring Rati in. [00:15:22] Speaker B: I think there's a plot that they want to explore there for sure, with the. [00:15:26] Speaker A: I'm also trying to remember, like, I don't think Roti is part of their. [00:15:29] Speaker B: I don't think. I think this is to get a. Another plot in there. [00:15:33] Speaker A: And is Roti the one that has a crush on somebody? Somebody has a crush on Mensa that, like, Murderbot calls out in that sort of opening vignette on the other characters of, like, this person. They were, like, this person admires Mensa to the point of, like, actually having a crush on her. Like, they just admire her so much. [00:15:47] Speaker B: I can't remember. [00:15:48] Speaker A: And I can't remember who it was now. But, yeah, so we get this little, you know, we kind of get our throuple moment with Pinley and Arata, which is. [00:15:55] Speaker B: But I thought Pin Lee liked Roti and Roti liked. [00:15:59] Speaker A: I think Ratty likes Pinley, Errata likes Roti. But you don't really get the vibe what. [00:16:05] Speaker B: That depends. Just into. Yeah, but the marriage. [00:16:08] Speaker A: Yeah. I don't know. This is all. We're just. We're adding this. We're Sanctuary mooning this. [00:16:12] Speaker B: Well, yeah, this. [00:16:13] Speaker A: For the show. This isn't really in. [00:16:15] Speaker B: I get that. I get that. But I think that's where they wanted to go, of course, with having some type of turbulence with this. This throuple. Like, it seems like Pen Lee was like, I love you, and I'm going to Kind of just do what. [00:16:27] Speaker A: I don't want any turbulence in the relationships, though, because there is none in the book. [00:16:32] Speaker B: But they. I think this is too, so healthy. I think this is to fill out a show is what they're trying to do. Because in the book they're just. They're kind of there and they have their personalities, but there's no plot with them, is there? [00:16:45] Speaker A: Not in this one in particular. [00:16:46] Speaker B: But we're starking. We're talking about this book. This is one book. So like I said before, we have to focus on one book. So if this one book has dead weight, we'll cut it out. They did cut somebody out already, so they can't cut out three other characters. [00:17:02] Speaker A: Well, the thing is, I just don't like. I don't want the thing that they add to be relationship turbulence because there isn't any in the book. Because they're really healthy relationships for tv. I'm aware. [00:17:12] Speaker B: Interesting. [00:17:13] Speaker A: It's. I don't think it's interesting though, like. [00:17:16] Speaker B: For the average viewer. [00:17:17] Speaker A: Yeah, it is. [00:17:18] Speaker B: Everybody likes drama with relationships. [00:17:21] Speaker A: It's cliche, it's boring. Everybody does it. [00:17:25] Speaker B: It's the substance less stuff that people want. Okay. [00:17:30] Speaker A: I think it's actually much more interesting to have a group of people that are so healthy and so communicative that there is no relationship drama. Even when you have. Because as Murderbot calls out. I was like, this person's into this person, but it's unrequited. Murderbot specifically calls out the fact that Rati is into another person. And it's specifically. I think the line in the book is, but he's not weird about it. [00:17:51] Speaker B: Yeah. And you know what? That leads to nothing in the book. So you get nothing more plot wise for that. So when you translate that into another medium, then it's just like, okay, there's nothing there for them. So that means they don't matter. [00:18:05] Speaker A: That's fine. [00:18:06] Speaker B: That. No, that doesn't. That's not fine. We need them to matter. [00:18:09] Speaker A: I do not, I think, agree with the premise that there has to be relationship drama for them to. [00:18:15] Speaker B: You don't want relationship drama because you want a perfect world for that threat. [00:18:20] Speaker A: I don't need it to be a perfect world for that third world. I don't think that that's the only way to make them. To make. I think it's the easiest way. I think it is the easy way out. To make them compelling or to make them have any other. [00:18:30] Speaker B: Any healthy relationship is going to any type of turbulence somehow. [00:18:34] Speaker A: It doesn't have to be based on. [00:18:35] Speaker B: The relationship at all. So. But, but any, any. Then you want them to add an actual, an extra plot inside that's outside of the actual plot of the book. [00:18:42] Speaker A: Give them something to do with their jobs. They're all scientists. [00:18:45] Speaker B: They're not, they're not going to add any extra things because that's not the, you know, the book. And they're going to have something that's related to their jobs. That's plot something. Right. They're not going to add anything extra on there with that because like how many perfect world, not society, norm, couple or throuple or anything shows have you seen? It's a handful and which is why it's more interesting. But how have those shows fared to the masses? Because now we're not talking about you, we're talking about who are we going to put. How are we getting to season two? That's who we're talking about. [00:19:20] Speaker A: It's Apple tv. They really don't care. They're gonna put money in anyway. Well, they're like, this is a guaranteed three seasons. [00:19:27] Speaker B: I, I don't know. We will see. That's, that's how I think about it. Only for this type of media, this. [00:19:33] Speaker A: Is, this is business versus artist. [00:19:35] Speaker B: Very, very true. [00:19:36] Speaker A: And the business, you're like, the business of it is this. And I'm like, this is not interesting. [00:19:40] Speaker B: And you're going to tell me that Apple. [00:19:42] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:19:43] Speaker B: The business of Apple's. [00:19:45] Speaker A: Apple. [00:19:46] Speaker B: Apple are. [00:19:47] Speaker A: They are business paragon of artistry. [00:19:50] Speaker B: They are, they're the biggest of businesses. [00:19:52] Speaker A: They look down on capitalism actually. [00:19:54] Speaker B: Sure. [00:19:54] Speaker A: You don't want to participate in it. [00:19:55] Speaker B: They look down while they're hand in hand with like an Amazon looking down. [00:20:00] Speaker A: They don't view themselves as a business. [00:20:01] Speaker B: Yeah, sure. [00:20:02] Speaker A: They think that that's reductive. [00:20:03] Speaker B: I, I get it though. You want the, the nice no turbulence to be. To be this, you know, shown in normal and we're not even pulls away. [00:20:14] Speaker A: From things that are actually interesting by doing the easy thing. [00:20:18] Speaker B: I don't care for them to draw it out to where it's this long battle of I hate you type of thing. But like the subtleness of it, it. [00:20:24] Speaker A: Seems relatively innocuous and it's just kind of like an addition that I'm kind of like whatever. Like you know, it's the kind of edition that I just look at and I'm like, they took the easiest option here. [00:20:33] Speaker B: You know, how much what I want as much as I want from it. When Murderbot switches to the feed real quick and gets that small moment. I'll be fine. If that was it, we get small moments of how it. It. Where it's like. It's a story that you could piece together through those murderbots spying on people. If you wanted to edit the whole thing to put it back to back, you'll get a story. But it's just small moments. I'd be fine with that because I'm like, okay, that was a subplot that didn't take the forefront of the whole story. And it's. It's fine. You can see that go through, you know, progress or take its course. But it didn't. It didn't throw me off any. Like, I didn't. It. It was fine. [00:21:12] Speaker A: It's not that it's ruining anything. It's just kind of one of those things that I look at it and I'm like, yawn. [00:21:16] Speaker B: Okay. [00:21:17] Speaker A: Like, was this necessary? [00:21:18] Speaker B: I think. I think it was conversation necessary? Yeah, it was. It was necessary because you yawned it. [00:21:24] Speaker A: Because we do get into relationship stuff later in the series. [00:21:28] Speaker B: We got it. You got to turn off the rest of the series. [00:21:30] Speaker A: No. [00:21:31] Speaker B: You have to turn off the rest of the series. [00:21:33] Speaker A: No. [00:21:33] Speaker B: Because you will shadow and bone yourself whenever at the end of it something drastically different happens. And then you're like, yeah. And then you cancel. You're like, what. What was that even gonna lead to? Because that's. None of this is in the book. [00:21:47] Speaker A: No clue. [00:21:48] Speaker B: So. Exactly. So you gotta focus. You know that this is the first book, and that's good. So you. That's what you should just look for. What are the first book things that I'm gonna get out of this? Not. What are the six book things that I'm gonna get out of it? Not the. The sprinkles that lead to book three. No, you gotta. First book. That's what we're on. [00:22:10] Speaker A: That, however, tunnel vision, it the counterpoint. [00:22:13] Speaker B: Okay. [00:22:14] Speaker A: That, however, I think, is a pretty solid failing of a lot of these adaptations. [00:22:18] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. [00:22:19] Speaker A: Is that they are so focused on book one or they're so focused on whatever that they're doing in the beginning that they shoot themselves in the foot for the rest of the series. Because they're like, assuming, okay, we have to make this. We have to make this work right now. [00:22:29] Speaker B: You're right. [00:22:30] Speaker A: You totally shoot the Aragon movie. [00:22:32] Speaker B: You are. You are. You are right. [00:22:33] Speaker A: Of all badation bad, bad adaptations. [00:22:37] Speaker B: His Dark Materials movie did ex. Golden Compass. So, yeah, you're. You're right in that, but. [00:22:44] Speaker A: No, but I'm Right. [00:22:45] Speaker B: But they can. [00:22:47] Speaker A: I'm cutting the part where you say, can't rely on. You're right. [00:22:50] Speaker B: Oh, I'm going to get this seven book series out of this thing. They can't rely on that. Not everybody is his dark materials. They were guaranteed their stuff. Right. They can, with ease, be like, okay, we can plant these seeds. But not everybody gets that. I don't. I don't know the data, but I would like to see how many shows actually on Apple have been canceled after one season because I only hear about the hits. [00:23:11] Speaker A: That many? [00:23:11] Speaker B: I only hear about the hits. [00:23:12] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:23:13] Speaker B: So I don't. [00:23:13] Speaker A: I don't know, because I think that that's. That's kind of one of the things Apple does really well is that they don't have a shit ton of programing the way that something like Netflix does. And. And instead what they do is they put money into the things they actually make. [00:23:25] Speaker B: And, like, they're quality. Yeah, they're definitely quality. [00:23:27] Speaker A: Just why you're like, oh, I just heard about the show called Silo. Let's go watch it. What do you mean? There's two and a half seasons or whatever the it is. [00:23:33] Speaker B: All right, what. What happens next? We're on the conversation. [00:23:37] Speaker A: You're still talking. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Grabbing. Still talking to Murderbot. So you kind of. Again, we're kind of pulling things in from further conversations in the season or in the. In the book. But you kind of start to see. He talks about preservation, sees constructs as people. [00:23:50] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:23:50] Speaker A: And is, like, very clearly disagrees. [00:23:52] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:23:53] Speaker A: He's like, oh, people. It kind of sees you guys as people. Isn't that so weird? Which, frankly, Murderbot also thinks is weird because. [00:24:01] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:24:02] Speaker A: Is very clear in. In a way that I'm. I. Who knows if they're gonna get into this in a show, but Murderbot is very clear that it's not a person. I. I hope it's a construct. It's a box. [00:24:11] Speaker B: If that, to me, if that's taken out, then that is a massive hole in that character now because, like, we've alluded to, they've taken out a couple of other things that are important. But that, to me, if that's taken out, that's. That's a core component. [00:24:26] Speaker A: This is also the same conversation or the same, like, bit of time in the show where you have this bizarre moment of Garathan requiring eye contact. That whole, like, I'm ordering you. I don't know his character to be eye contact with. [00:24:38] Speaker B: Maybe it's just A suspicion thing. [00:24:40] Speaker A: It is. I understand what it's doing. Like, I, I. Well, what I understand as a viewer and kind of like, this is not in the book. So this is, like, just my assumption is that he's trying to see if it's going to go against orders because he knows that it doesn't like eye contact. And he has a suspicion, apparently, that the governor module is down based off of question mark, question mark. And it shows the feed of, like, here's you talking to Erota. This was weird. And then you do get the Sanctuary Moon flash. Love that. Keep that coming. Every episode of the episode that it specifically took that from. Yeah, those specific words. And it's like, you know, I have a combat trauma module and whatever, whatever, whatever. And then we start talking again about, like, its memory. And Garathan's got all these suspicions about, like, something that happened to it previously. And what do you remember about your, you know, XYZ thing that was ever happening? He's like. And so Murderbot's talking about, like, oh, my memory was erased. And Grothan's like, okay, can you find that memory? I'll look for the memory. I don't. We're doing something weird with this Garoan story. [00:25:38] Speaker B: It said no. And then, I mean, yes, I'll look for it. Garathan in the show feels like he isn't a part of the preserve. I would say, like, he comes from a different world and, like, went to the preserve to find a better life type of thing. Like a. Like an outcast. Like, he's more. [00:25:56] Speaker A: Yeah. He's only been with the. With the preservation for six years. [00:26:00] Speaker B: Okay. So, yeah, if it. It comes across. [00:26:03] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:26:04] Speaker B: I feel like he doesn't seem like he Is that one of the. One of the preserve people. [00:26:09] Speaker A: They're not actually from a preserve. [00:26:10] Speaker B: Okay. [00:26:11] Speaker A: They're just called preservation. [00:26:12] Speaker B: I've got to change a lot in my book, because that's. [00:26:18] Speaker A: Not from, like, an enclosure. [00:26:19] Speaker B: I mean, they could be. Who knows? Maybe that's. That's their choice. All right. Let them live in a farm that's a zoo. [00:26:25] Speaker A: And. And that comes across in the book as well. Garothan is very much noted as the one who's much quieter, much more standoffish, much less, like, easygoing and kind as everybody else, and is the only one that has, like, a feed implant as well. So there are things that set him apart. And Murderbot's like, I'm gonna go check the perimeter. He does not go for that. And then cut to Mensa and Bara Dwaj. I don't know what they're doing on. I mean, I, I, I understand what they're doing, but this is like a bizarre feat of, like, why did we do this? Just the two of you? This doesn't make any sense. [00:26:56] Speaker B: Them just going to check out. [00:26:57] Speaker A: Them just going to check out this part of the map. And I don't know, I don't really know why they in here. You kind of, you see Mensa climbing this mountainous thing. Why did you not just fly over it? [00:27:07] Speaker B: That didn't make sense until I saw the eagles fly across the freaking thing. And it was like, wait, wait. She could have just flown up there to where they were looking for. Like, why did you park so far? [00:27:19] Speaker A: You're supposed to think is like, safety. Like, they don't know what's in there, I guess. So we're playing it. Mensa's having a panic attack. So, yeah, Mensa's. [00:27:26] Speaker B: That's the second time too, that we've seen that for episode one and episode two. [00:27:29] Speaker A: So, so, yeah, we're working in this, this thing. We see another one of the animals, which we're calling animals, and I feel like it was a little more fun. We call it Hostile One. [00:27:38] Speaker B: Wow. [00:27:38] Speaker A: It's called Hostile One. [00:27:40] Speaker B: There's, there's their animals there, but it's a hostile. Let them. [00:27:44] Speaker A: So, yes, they, they refer to this creature in, in the book. There's only one of them. You only see the one that's in the crater, and they refer to it as Hostile One because they don't know what it is. And they don't, they don't have any information on it because it's not in there in their survey packet. And Mensa finds this thing. [00:28:02] Speaker B: I don't remember this. [00:28:03] Speaker A: So a thing is in the book. They have just made it more visually interesting. [00:28:07] Speaker B: Okay. This looks like some type of magnetic field. [00:28:10] Speaker A: Yeah, it's, it's something, you know, they're, they're saying maybe it's an alien remnant that is clearly drawing in organic material. It's drawing in these animals and killing them when they get up to it. And it's the thing that's missing on their map. [00:28:23] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:28:23] Speaker A: So we find out what's missing on their map. It's. It, it calls to these animals in such a way that they completely bypass Mensa instead of killing her, which is great. And Murderbot tells her to come back. There's, I think that, that moment where Murderbot finally realizes that something's going on in the middle of this conversation. With Garathan and Murderbot's first thought is, Mensa's too stubborn. Like, she's having a panic attack, and she's really scared, but she's too stubborn to turn around. And so Murderbot's first thing is, I'm ordering you to turn around. Like, you have to turn around. Like, there's something coming. You have to turn around. Turn around. And I think as the audience, you don't really know at that point that something's coming. And it kind of just comes off as, like, Murderbot is just saying, like, trying to give her an excuse. [00:28:58] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:28:59] Speaker A: Like, you need somebody to give you permission and to tell you that you need to turn around because you really want to, but you won't let yourself. [00:29:04] Speaker B: And I joke it off when it. With her response. Yeah, yeah. [00:29:08] Speaker A: Like, how are you? How you doing? Yeah, I really like their relationship in the book. Murder and. Yeah, Mensa and Murderbot, I really, really love their relationship in the book, and I like how it's been playing out in the show so far. And I think it. They're just. They're my favorites. They're my babies. I love them so much. [00:29:24] Speaker B: That's what I said in the first episode. Those were the two characters that I was really, like, got a key in on, and I hope they do them well. [00:29:30] Speaker A: Yeah. And that's pretty much where we leave off. So they. They. They have a conversation about what they found. I think Roti is the one that brings up that it's alien remnants. It's interesting that Roti says alien remnants as the. And, like, and it's. It almost comes off as a conspiracy where, like, Pinley is like, oh, like one of your TV shows. [00:29:49] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:29:50] Speaker A: But this is a very normal thing in the corporation and in the books. It's like, very standard. [00:29:55] Speaker B: Aliens exist. [00:29:56] Speaker A: Yeah, aliens exist. We find remnants from. [00:29:58] Speaker B: At least existed. [00:29:59] Speaker A: Yeah. We find remnants of them on planets often enough that there is a protocol for what to do when it happens. [00:30:05] Speaker B: Yes. Yeah. [00:30:05] Speaker A: Yeah, that. Like, it's not really that, which is. [00:30:08] Speaker B: Weird because you switch automatically whenever you. We were talking about Roddy saying it and was like, oh, is this one of your TV shows? But then they were like, there's protocols for this type of thing. [00:30:19] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:30:19] Speaker B: So if we know there's protocols, clearly we know this is happening or something. Yeah. Why would it be weird? Yeah, that. Yeah, that was. That was a strange little moment in that. In that scene. [00:30:30] Speaker A: And then we get the Deltfall call out that, like, there's another team here on the planet. They're not the only team on the planet. They're like, okay, well there's somebody else here. Let's call them and see if they see if they know anything. So they call Deltfall, which is another survey team that's on the same planet as them. We know that they're in the book. We know that they're across an ocean. They're like on a totally different continent. [00:30:47] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:30:47] Speaker A: So they, they call the Deltfall team. Don't get an answer. And everybody in Delfall is dead. [00:30:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:30:54] Speaker A: Like dead dead dead. Including their security. [00:30:57] Speaker B: Yeah. Then one of their sec boxes is, is down like slashed open fully. [00:31:02] Speaker A: Head gone. [00:31:03] Speaker B: Yeah. They went full gore on all this. [00:31:06] Speaker A: Deltfall is. Is something, something happened there. [00:31:09] Speaker B: I as a person that knows everything I, about the, you know, the first book or whatever, I didn't. I wanted more is type of thing. So you're like, okay, we're like. [00:31:20] Speaker A: It's like episode over. [00:31:21] Speaker B: Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I, and you know, knowing that we have this like beforehand, you know, this preview or whatever, you're watching it early. [00:31:28] Speaker A: So we wait longer to get to the next. Yeah. [00:31:30] Speaker B: So yeah, the wait is now forever. [00:31:33] Speaker A: Maybe they'll give me every episode early. [00:31:35] Speaker B: I hope. I would only hope because half a month we have to wait. [00:31:40] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:31:40] Speaker B: That's insane. [00:31:41] Speaker A: So we'll have to wait until May. [00:31:43] Speaker B: 23Rd and who knows what if it gets canceled beforehand? [00:31:46] Speaker A: Who knows? [00:31:47] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:31:47] Speaker A: Not on Apple tv. [00:31:49] Speaker B: We don't know. We have. We don't know the data. [00:31:51] Speaker A: I'm putting my faith in Apple. I really like that they make good. They make good tv. [00:31:55] Speaker B: Tv. Apple tv. [00:31:58] Speaker A: My faith in Apple tv. [00:31:59] Speaker B: Sheesh. [00:32:00] Speaker A: Not, not. Not in my iPhone. Well, actually I should probably say that because series listening to me, you don't have an iPhone. So you're not gonna get an. I'm gonna get on a class action lawsuit. Whoever runs my 47 cents apple listening to my conversations without my permission. [00:32:14] Speaker B: 47. That's it. [00:32:15] Speaker A: I don't know. It's. Getting in on a class action lawsuit always gets you nothing. So not. But I will. [00:32:21] Speaker B: My old job, I won't get into it on the thing, but I gotta. [00:32:24] Speaker A: One of my old jobs did that too. I got, I got like a 500 check. I think like six years after I worked there, I got for a class. [00:32:29] Speaker B: Action lawsuit, $900 one time. [00:32:31] Speaker A: There you go. [00:32:32] Speaker B: And I was like, yep. And I still work here. Yep. [00:32:38] Speaker A: But I will put my faith in Apple tv. [00:32:40] Speaker B: All right. [00:32:40] Speaker A: I feel like they're, they're doing a good Job with this. I. I like it. It's looking good. It's. The aesthetic of the show is good. It's kind of. It's that thing that, like, they clearly have a budget. Even if it's a season one budget, you can. You can kind of see where and how, like, things can improve. [00:32:55] Speaker B: You think it might go down? [00:32:57] Speaker A: No, I'm thinking of, like, when you. You watch a show that looks perfectly fine. Looks better like Game of Thrones, which is onto the screen. Looks perfectly fine season one, but you can really tell that season two jump. [00:33:05] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:33:06] Speaker A: Budget. [00:33:06] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:33:07] Speaker A: Yeah. So it's. It's looking good. They're doing well with what they've got. I'm curious what the budget on the show is actually, but you can kind of see where. Where we can improve things for season two. Not to get into. We're only two episodes in. Two out of ten. [00:33:18] Speaker B: I told you. Yeah. Focus on the first. [00:33:20] Speaker A: I'm always looking to the future. All right? I've read seven of these books, and I've read them all 17 times. [00:33:24] Speaker B: So focus on the first book. Let's get through the first book. [00:33:28] Speaker A: This is what I'm saying. We have talked about this before. Every adaptation needs somebody like me on the team. You need somebody who is checking you on, like, how is this gonna work when we get to the. Okay, you're. How does this work with this storyline that comes out in book six? [00:33:41] Speaker B: They would throw you out of the writer's room instantaneously. [00:33:45] Speaker A: And I understand. I understand that Martha Wells is a consulting producer. They still need somebody like me. [00:33:50] Speaker B: And I don't think even. I wonder how much the authors of these books and these adaptations, whenever they get to sit in on any of these. [00:33:58] Speaker A: Oh, it's. It's like, different, like, production to production. [00:34:01] Speaker B: I. I'm wondering, have they ever had that discussion of, like, well, how are you going to do this in. In the next season when, you know you've killed the dragon in this one and he's the main character in the next book? [00:34:13] Speaker A: Like, I really can't get over. I will never be over. Like, the Aragon movie is famously bad, and we'll watch it someday, but they change the ending of the movie. They leave out something from the ending of the movie to the point that you cannot make the second book. [00:34:28] Speaker B: You can't do it when we watch. [00:34:30] Speaker A: It, because you take the entire plot away because it's all dependent on this one thing. [00:34:34] Speaker B: Well, when we do watch it, I don't know, because you said the exact same thing about the Golden Compass. And I was like, no, I know exactly how you do. The first one, you start off with a murder, and the second one, you. [00:34:46] Speaker A: Just put it in. [00:34:47] Speaker B: Yep. [00:34:47] Speaker A: You just make it happen. The thing that Aragon leaves out, though, you could, like, put it in, like, oh, this happened. But it has to happen at the thing that happens at the end of book one. Regardless, we'll watch it someday. It's really bad, but, yeah, no, so far, we're doing. We're doing all right. I'm a little iffy on, I think the Garothan storyline, I think, is my. Kind of, like, I don't know where we're going here. [00:35:07] Speaker B: I think it'll burn out after the episode. Third episode. [00:35:10] Speaker A: I'm hoping. I think there will be a point where we will kind of reach a crossroads with the book where it finally crosses over with what goes on in the book. And then from then on, it should be fine, but we'll see. But I think as of now, a little bit of Murderbot's motivations, a little bit of Garathan's storyline is kind of, like, iffy, but overall, I'm liking the story. I'm liking, like, it. It looks really good. I love this cast. I think this cast is so good. [00:35:37] Speaker B: Cass is really good. [00:35:38] Speaker A: Yeah, Cass is doing really, really great. I love the inclusion of Sanctuary Moon. I hope we continue to get, like, at least one, like, what they've been. [00:35:45] Speaker B: Doing and sprinting like, that has been good. [00:35:47] Speaker A: This is how I know. [00:35:48] Speaker B: I was gonna ask, do you know any of those people that in this last one, this last woman looked familiar. [00:35:52] Speaker A: And I can't remember what I know. [00:35:53] Speaker B: Her from because I was like, that'd be kind of cool to get a different cameo each time. [00:35:56] Speaker A: You see, like, they might do that. [00:35:58] Speaker B: That would be kind of cool. [00:35:59] Speaker A: We'll see. I, I, I'm very hopeful for the amount of Sanctuary Moon that we're including. And then it leaves the door open for, like, other shows in other seasons. [00:36:07] Speaker B: Okay. You got a. The first. [00:36:09] Speaker A: No, let us always looking ahead. [00:36:12] Speaker B: Let. I'm with you on that. When it comes to anything else. [00:36:16] Speaker A: Only on this. [00:36:17] Speaker B: When it. From the disappointments that I've had with television shows, you got to be like, hey, this can. [00:36:24] Speaker A: Part of my hope where I can get it. And right now, it's this. [00:36:27] Speaker B: My hope is everywhere except for this. [00:36:29] Speaker A: My hope is only here. [00:36:30] Speaker B: That's terrible, Sir. I call everybody sir. [00:36:37] Speaker A: Everybody getting misgendered on. [00:36:38] Speaker B: Everybody is a sir. That's. Yeah, it's the, The Good Burger. I'm a dude. She's a dude. They're a dude. Because we're all dudes. [00:36:46] Speaker A: Yes. [00:36:46] Speaker B: This is. [00:36:46] Speaker A: This is the only thing giving me hope. So this. Honestly, if this show is bad, you are gonna have to stop me from jumping into traffic. [00:36:52] Speaker B: I don't think. I don't think it's going to be bad. Let's hold on to that. Going to be bad. [00:36:56] Speaker A: It will be bad for me if the show is bad. [00:36:58] Speaker B: I don't think it will be bad. [00:37:00] Speaker A: Talk me off the ledge. [00:37:01] Speaker B: I think. I think what you're not gonna like is by, like, episode four and five, when we're focusing on things that are probably not in the book, just to kind of, you know, add a little bit more stuff to a substance to it. But, yes, it's gonna be fine. I think this will be good. I think we're going to. [00:37:18] Speaker A: I have good feelings about it. I have. I have overall good feelings about the show. You know, I'm liking it. I'm having a good time. [00:37:23] Speaker B: You know why? I think it'll always. It'll eventually wrap up season one as a good one. Because it's going to leave us with. They had a season one and we're good. We don't have to go. We don't have to go further. [00:37:34] Speaker A: Like, if you're exactly the same as the book, you would still be like, at the end of the season, you're like, okay, that's because you and I talk about this all the time with Murderbot. Murderbot is great as an episodic series. [00:37:44] Speaker B: Yes. [00:37:45] Speaker A: It's like each individual book because they're so small. This. For those of who have not read these. Of these seven books, five of them are novellas. Less than 200 pages. [00:37:55] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:37:56] Speaker A: So because they're so short, they're perfect little episodes. Like, each individual book is its own episode. And I think that works very well for seasons. Each individual book is its own sort of enclosed season. [00:38:07] Speaker B: I prefer more. Let me start with that. But if they only did one and they did it well and like the book and they wrapped it up, I would be happy. I'd be like, all right, I know you would. [00:38:19] Speaker A: Because you wouldn't start the second book for the longest fucking time. If you refuse to start booking. Oh, where it is. I don't want to. [00:38:26] Speaker B: It's a testament to how good the writer wedding is. Like, you. You're. You gave me. And then I get full package. I'm full. [00:38:33] Speaker A: Can you read Network Effect for the love of. [00:38:34] Speaker B: Eventually I will. Eventually I will. If it's in a library. [00:38:38] Speaker A: It is. [00:38:38] Speaker B: Go to your library. Go to your libraries. Is the hoopla even available for somebody like me anymore? [00:38:43] Speaker A: Not on Sacramento anymore. Sacramento library got rid of hoopla. That's them. [00:38:46] Speaker B: Budget already or. [00:38:48] Speaker A: Yeah, I think it went away. [00:38:50] Speaker B: Nope, I'm still on it. [00:38:51] Speaker A: Oh, is it the end of this month? [00:38:52] Speaker B: I think it's the end of this month. [00:38:54] Speaker A: All right. Support your local libraries, people, because the fucking government is not gonna do it. [00:38:57] Speaker B: Yeah, they're. They're killing the libraries. So definitely I'm a big advocate for going to your libraries. [00:39:04] Speaker A: You ready to wrap this up? I probably gotta go feed my dogs. [00:39:06] Speaker B: Yeah, because you're. It's an hour into this one. Oh. [00:39:09] Speaker A: And I have things to tell you after this. Okay? [00:39:11] Speaker B: You have plenty of things to tell me. Yeah. [00:39:13] Speaker A: All right. [00:39:13] Speaker B: All right. [00:39:14] Speaker A: Okay.