MEET R.A. BASU! [Author of To Bargain With Mortals]

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hello Reader Tangent listeners. I've got a fun episode for you today about To Bargain with Mortals by Arivasu. And you already know what it is from the title here, but I wanted to give a quick note on the timing of this recording before you get into it. This episode was recorded all the way back in April of this year and was made available for subscribers only on MyBindery. So you'll hear us talk in this as though you guys don't know too much about the book, haven't been able to read it yet, or even seen the COVID as of now. When you're hearing this, the book is now out in the world and you can get it wherever it is that you buy books. And please do, please do buy it. And that's it. I just wanted to let you know that is why it will sound like we're talking about things that don't make any sense at some points. It's because this was recorded many months ago. Now, to throw you back in time and get going with the public release of our previously subscriber only episode. Hello everybody, and welcome to a very special, very exciting episode of Reader Tangents. I am back today with another author interview, this time with Ra Basu, the author of To Bargain with Mortals. I assume if you are listening to this, you know why that is very exciting. If you are new here, hello. I think this is going to go out to subscribers first, but it will eventually be public, so. Hello everybody. My name is Emma Skies. I probably should introduce myself. My name is Emma Skies. I am the acquiring manager for Skyes Press, my publishing imprint. And To Bargain with Mortals is my first acquisition. To Bargain with mortals comes out October 28th. And this is Ari Basu's debut novel. This, in fact is her first author interview. So lots of exciting things happening right here. It's gonna be a good time. It's a good conversation, and I wanted to start by giving you just that little bit of context and also letting you know a little bit of what the book's about. Because we kind of talk around it, but we never do a really good job of actually telling you what this book is about. So I thought I would give you this synopsis because now there actually is one. At the time that we recorded this podcast, it was about a month ago, I was very ambitious in how quickly I thought I would get this out. I was like, I'll have this out this week. No, I didn't. So at the time, you will hear us mention that, like the COVID hasn't been released. The synopsis hasn't been released. The release date hasn't been announced. All of that has since been announced. So To Bargain with Mortals comes out on October 28th. The COVID is live. You can. I will probably have it on the show art and you can see it anywhere on retail sites and Goodreads and everything. But I did want to give you the description of the book. So this is the official synopsis. An outcast heiress, a notorious gang leader. A country on the brink of revolution. In the colonized nation of Virianna, Poppy Sutherland lives between cultures. As the brown skinned adopted daughter of the viceroy, she is both rejected by white high society and alienated from the people of her native island. When she discovers her opportunistic fiance's plot to exile her, Poppy flees straight into the clutches of the Jackal. Hassan d', Var, the ruthless criminal known as the Jackal has long been targeted for his family's divine magic, a gift the colonizers have tried to stamp out. When his brother is arrested, he sees his Poppy as leverage. But Poppy has powerful secrets and political ambitions of her own. As allies, they could do more than just free Hassan's brother and keep Poppy safe. They could topple the very power structures that hold them all back. The first book in the Reckoning Storm duology, To Bargain with Mortals is a stunning reflection on politics and purpose, blood and allegiance, and what we do with the histories we inherit. So as you will hear in the episode, we never get quite that clear about talking about the book. So I wanted to give you that context up. We do get to a point where we, like, try to talk a little bit of it, and neither of us has a good elevator pitch for the book at this point, so we kind of dance around it. So there you go. And the last little bit of context that I will give you before we move into the conversation is that you will notice that the beginning of this episode is a bit chaotic. There are starts and stops. There are points where things don't seem to go quite right. I think we did four separate recordings. Like we started recording and then the recording became corrupted, I think three or four times. And you may notice that in, in the, in the episode that that resolves itself pretty quickly. I think by the time we reach like the 10 minute mark, everything is pretty smooth sailing from then on. So just a heads up, it's a little bit janky in the beginning, it's a little bit chaotic. And then we settle into things and anyway, here you go. Here is the very first author interview with Ra Basu, thanks for coming on. It's been a minute. We have our schedules lining up. Has been a nightmare. Every time you were available, I had, like, a busy month. And then every time I was like, okay, I'm around nine. You're like, no, my life is falling apart. I can't do it. [00:04:16] Speaker B: I'm glad we managed to, like, to do this, especially right before the. The COVID dropping, because I think for. [00:04:24] Speaker A: Anybody listening, we initially had tried to set something up, like, way back in November, and we would not have been able to say yes. And then I also got the plague. [00:04:32] Speaker B: Once you were better, the winter was just like, plague. [00:04:35] Speaker A: My God. [00:04:36] Speaker B: And then, like, my day job like this, the seasonality of it, like, Black Friday and Boxing Day are, like, the worst days of the year for us. Well, I mean, Black Friday is the worst. Boxing Day is, like, second worst. So it's like, that was also going on. So. So you were like, oh, is there a time at, like, night or the weekend? And I was like, no, like 27. Just crisis management. So maybe next year. So, yeah. [00:05:02] Speaker A: I love the. The Boxing Day reveals to anybody who didn't know you're Canadian. No, we don't have Boxing Day. [00:05:11] Speaker B: For real. For real. Your face is fully stunned. [00:05:17] Speaker A: Yeah. Boxing Day is not a thing here. [00:05:20] Speaker B: What? Really? [00:05:22] Speaker A: I don't even think Boxing Day is the day after Christmas. Right. Is. [00:05:25] Speaker B: Is. Yeah. Is Boxing Day. [00:05:27] Speaker A: I only know Boxing Day from the UK and Canada and I assume Australia probably. I feel like Commonwealth places have it. [00:05:33] Speaker B: There's a red post from six years ago or someone else discovered that Americans don't celebrate. Wow. I did not know that. I'm sorry. Or congrats. [00:05:43] Speaker A: I love that we immediately have. [00:05:47] Speaker B: Oh, we've lost your mic. [00:05:53] Speaker A: It was. Honestly, it was. It was the Boxing Day revelation. It. It couldn't handle it. It was too much. [00:06:00] Speaker B: Okay, so you guys don't have box, I guess. [00:06:02] Speaker A: Yeah. I only know about Boxing Day, I think, from, like, British books and TV shows. And then at some point over the course of my life, I was like, oh, Canadians have it too. Australians have it too. Okay, so it's just us. [00:06:12] Speaker B: I have American cousins, and no one has ever told me once, like, I'm actually going to text people afterwards and be like, how could you not tell me that you guys don't celebrate Boxing Day? I have American critique partners. I'm like, there are a lot of Americans who let me down in this process, who let me get to this point in my life without telling me that Americans don't celebrate Boxing Day. [00:06:32] Speaker A: You don't have the metric system. You don't have Boxing Day. What do you have? [00:06:35] Speaker B: It's funny because, like, I realized now, if I'd written about Boxing Day in some capacity, maybe, like, someone would have edited it out of the book and I would have found out that way. Like, there's a lot of ways I could have figured out Boxing Day is not a thing in America. But I'm finding out today, live for everybody to win. [00:06:51] Speaker A: So happy to be here for it. I'm very, very excited. [00:06:53] Speaker B: You know, like, there's a joke that Americans are very American centric. Like, this is. We absolutely do, like, Canadian centric, like, or Commonwealth centric, where I'm like, oh, yeah, everyone's got Boxing Day because you're. [00:07:04] Speaker A: In Toronto or nearby. [00:07:06] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm like, close ish to Toronto. [00:07:08] Speaker A: I like that we've gotten this far in and have not talked about who you are. [00:07:11] Speaker B: Not at all going to listen to this podcast and be like, who's this person? [00:07:17] Speaker A: So, so, hi, you. [00:07:19] Speaker B: Tell us about yourself. Tell us about yourself. I don't know what boxing is day. I pretend to be from Toronto when I'm not. Okay. So I wrote a book. You did. [00:07:30] Speaker A: You did write a book? I, I, I read the book. Oh, my God. Did you freeze the second we started getting into it. [00:07:37] Speaker B: I don't know if you can hear me, but you're frozen on my end. [00:07:40] Speaker A: Oh, no. Okay, you can still hear me. I, oh, oh, no. Okay, so we're both recording again. We both have videos again. We had like a six minute recording. That one was five minutes and 49 seconds. [00:07:59] Speaker B: Okay. So every six minutes we just gotta kind of pause and like, my God, side eye. This is the software. Okay. All right. [00:08:04] Speaker A: We're gonna, we're gonna keep going as though it's going to work and we'll just see what happens. So, yes, you wrote a book. Would you like to tell us a little bit about your, about yourself? We'll get to your book in a minute. But what about you? [00:08:15] Speaker B: Okay. Hi, I'm from the Greater Toronto area. I write books. You know, in my spare time. I'm like in my mid, mid to late 20s at. This is like a side tangent, but when does it become too rude to say how old you are? Because, like, you know how sometimes it's rude to ask people how old they are at what age does it. Okay, we'll go back to this. Sorry, Hi. I can't stay on track. That's another thing about me. But yeah, I like fantasy. I like to Read and write fantasy. I enjoy reading romance, but the few times I tried to write romance, it didn't really like, people always started stabbing each other. So I really can't write outside. So like, maybe I could one day, but you know, not today. You know, in my spare time, enjoy, like drinking matcha, watching Netflix, playing the Sims. I'm really like, I have like phases. So like I'll go through like the phase of the Sims. I was super locked into Zelda for, for a while. I still am. But the thing is like a proper like eight hour Saturday to defeat like three shrines, you know, and then come back to it. I'm still not on Tears of the Kingdom. I bought Tears of the Kingdom, but I still haven't beat Breath of the Wild. I really thought I would have beaten it by now, but unfortunately I'm like, dumb and I'm like, I don't want to Google all the answers because I'm like, that's cheating. It took me 28 in game days to get out of that like the first place where you are where like you're trying to get the glider from the old man. It took 28 days to get out of there. I was actually like, so trash at the game. [00:09:37] Speaker A: Good lord. [00:09:38] Speaker B: Average. But like, you know, it was rough. So yeah, that's me. So I guess nutshell, like to read and write bad at Zelda, enjoy drinking Matcha and just generally sweet treats and like drinks keep me going. And then I also like, sometimes just enjoy playing the Sims. But that's really like once every three months I load it, I play it for 14 hours and then I forget about it for like. [00:09:58] Speaker A: The binges on Sims are incredible. [00:10:01] Speaker B: Yes, exactly. Over the five generations, someone will burn to death. It'll be a whole thing. And then I'll just forget the game exists. I need to get like a second computer to put the Sims on now. Because what I the error I've reached is that it's now too big for my laptop. I want to get more expansion packs, but my laptop's like, please. It's like probably like a whole third of this laptop is like the Sims 4. I got the Microsoft 360 thing. I'm splitting with a bunch of friends. We have a family plan and I put all my writing into the cloud so I can make room for the Sims. [00:10:37] Speaker A: Like, it's fine if the cloud crashes and my writing is gone. [00:10:39] Speaker B: I need like Sims. I'm like, I can write another book. I can't recover eight generations of the Sims. There's too much Lore in my save file. Like it's priorities. [00:10:50] Speaker A: All right, so I think, I think that that that feels like a solid icebreaker. I love the idea of like icebreakers has to be like, oh, you know, kind of warm you up. We've been talking for like 40 minutes trying to get. [00:10:59] Speaker B: We've had several icebreakers. [00:11:02] Speaker A: So the actual icebreaker that I kind of wrote down to transition us into talking about books and things is when we'll talk about like book recommendations and things later on. But in general, what do you feel like shaped you as a reader? What are your. Like, you look back fondly on the books that you're like. This probably explains a lot about me. [00:11:18] Speaker B: There's a bunch. And I' I probably will forget a handful until someone will remind me that, hey, do you remember this series? So Eragon is there. I know you know about Aragon because you posted once. And I was like, see, I was like, that's. I'm like, that's why I'm part of this imprint. So that's terrible. I have. [00:11:38] Speaker A: You can't see it. I'll show you after the recording. But I have six different editions of Eragon. [00:11:44] Speaker B: So I was big into Eragon. I really shipped. And I'm gonna pronounce his name wrong. Cause I've only ever heard it in my head. But Murtagh and Nasuada, it was shit time. I was like, will they or won't they? So when he published the fourth one, or no, the fifth one now I like, I went, I ran to pick it up. I was like, tell me, do they or don't they? So I'm not gonna spoil it for the people listening. But I was just like. So I was like, I need to know. I need answers. So I ran to pick it up as soon as it came out, like rent free in my head. So that was like a big one. And it's funny because I didn't even pick up Eragon on my own. In sixth grade, we did like a fantasy unit in Eng English class. And each group was assigned a different book to read. And then we had to do like there was, you know, like just like basic three act structure plot charts. So like we had to plot out like the, the character, like the plot points of each of our books and then like do a presentation on the book to the rest of the class who obviously didn't read the book. And the group I was assigned in, none of them were like big readers. So I was the only one who read the book. But I was obsessed. So in the time frame we had been assigned to read the book. I managed to finish all of the books that had been published up until that point. [00:12:57] Speaker A: There you go. [00:12:58] Speaker B: So, like, I was like. So then when we were doing the plot chart, I was like, give me the Crayola markers. I was like. And stay out of my way, because I'm gonna. I'm gonna do this graph. I'm like, I don't. I'm gonna pretend that they read this book. I'm like. Because I've memorized it, and I'm obsessed with it. This is my new personality trait. You guys only created a monster, so. Because the thing is, there were a bunch of books we could have picked. I was trying to pick a different book. Don't even remember what it was anymore. This other girl picks the book because she was. She's like, the COVID is so pretty. I want to do Eragon. So the teacher, okay, Eragon for your group. And I was like, why did you pick Eragon? I wanted the other book. I'm like, I know. You're not even gonna read this book. And, like, now I have to read the book I didn't want to read, but I was obsessed with it. As soon as I read the first book, I was like, yeah. I'm like, this is my personality now. So Aragon was one of them. Huge. Then I would say, Warrior Cats, unfortunately. So not unfair. There's always a Warrior Cats child. And it was. It was me. I tried to pick up the other ones with the bears, but the cats were really, like, I think the standout series. I was big into the Hunger Games, but that was probably as an older teen reader. This is, like, a responsibility on my school librarian's part. But I read Twilight when I was in, like, grade five, and I was meant to be reading Twilight in grade five. It was really meant for, like, grade eight. Nine. Like the Shatter Me series. Like, the original trilogy. The original Shatter Me. I was super into the original Shatter Me. Those had a grip on me. Grave Mercy by Robin. [00:14:21] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:14:22] Speaker B: Getting her last name. You can probably patch it into, like, the notes after Le Fever. There we go. That series had a grip on me, too. I read the original trilogy, and I think she's come out with two more, which I haven't gotten around to yet. But the two new ones, I think, don't they have new characters, new main characters? So I was really obsessed with the original three, so. And then. Oh. When I was a little kid, my dad used to read the Tintin comics to us before bed. So I think Those are also formative at some point. Like, I really like detective stories, so I feel like at some point one might see a detective series for me. [00:14:55] Speaker A: Well, that's a good segue into like, when did you start writing either, like hobbyist and just kind of like getting things down and then when did you decide you wanted to pursue it? [00:15:04] Speaker B: I used to write like stories as a little kid, but they were like never like that serious, you know what I mean? A lot of them, like, I used to write. I had this ongoing text pad on a desktop computer where I would just write different werewolf fanfic. It was self insert and I borrowed the lore from Stephenie Meyer with shapeshifters, but it was a completely different character. It was just me and my friends playing in that universe. So I used to write a little bit that way. Yeah, it was very cute. In high school, me and three other friends tried to write our first fantasy novel together. Each of us, like, had our own character and we like tried to alternate chapters that fell off eventually. That's just not a sustainable way of writing a book. Some people are able to co write books, but that's like, usually when you're an adult and not when you're like 15 and you have other things to do. So we fell off that. But that was fun to do as a group activity. And then like in university is when I wrote like my first full novel. So like in first year university, so I went to school. Like, I went to business school and I didn't go. Like, none of the kids in my high school went to that same business school. So I was the only person in my year from that high school. So instead of making friends, like for the first couple of weeks, I was just sitting and typing away at this novel by myself. So I like, I finished my schoolwork, I'd be like, now what? I'd be like, okay, I guess I write a novel now. So I finished that book and it went through like, I can't even say that the revisions were revisions. Like, I think I might probably wrote like three spin off versions of that book because I would change the world building dramatically between rounds. Because I'd be like, that's not working for this. So I'm gonna change, keep the characters and their motivations and just try and change the world. So I wrote three different versions of that. One of those versions got submitted to Author mentor Match. I didn't get in that year, but that was like the beginning of me attempting publication because, like, I was suddenly like, like, I joined Book Twitter and it's, I guess, like golden days. And then I know rest was like, this was like, 2017 ish. I think, like, when I had started. So, wow, that was a long time ago. You just got so quiet because I was like, oh, yeah, it was only, like, three years ago. And I was like, wait, oh, yeah, no, time. [00:17:24] Speaker A: Time is a fake construct that I don't recognize anymore. [00:17:27] Speaker B: Yeah, that's not real. So. So, yeah, so it was probably around then that I was like, oh, I want to be, like, in grade 12, I think is probably where the discussion happened. Because, like, that grade 12 is like, you have to apply to university, right? So I told my parents, like, my parents, like, what do you want to do? I'm like, I really like writing and books. But my. Like, we spoke to a bunch of different, like, English teachers. Like, when we did the campus tours, we talked to English professors. And the one, like, vibe I kept picking up from. From everybody was just like, I can't tell you what you need to do to get a job in this field. They're like, it's pretty hit or miss. You can do the degree and you can get a perfect grade in the degree, but there is no guarantee you will walk away with anything. Which alarmed my parents more than it alarmed me at the time, mostly because I didn't know how expensive it was to live. So I was just like, what's the big deal, guys? And my parents are like, no, get a job that feeds you. And then, like, if you, like, you still have time to write on the side, that's great, but your job should feed you. So I did business instead of English, and then I was still, like, writing on the side with the hope that, like, okay, like, even though I'm writing on the side, it's also get published, which. Which works. So, I mean, if anyone in high school is listening to this and is like, I'll die if I don't do English, probably not. Like, so, like, you'll be. You'll be okay. I think I did a business degree. I can't say that I was the best business student. Mostly because, like, there are some people who are really passionate about business, so they spend their free time, like, really, like, grinding and, like, you know, oh, a B is not good enough for me. I want an A. But I was just like, I need to pass the class with a respectable grade, and then I'm going back to my book. So, yeah, so you kind of. You win some, you lose some. If I had been really dedicated, I think I could have Done better in school. But the thing I was dedicated to was writing. [00:19:19] Speaker A: So then when did you start working on or thinking about working on the one that is now getting published? [00:19:24] Speaker B: That was 2020. Like, it was my pandemic project. So we'd been in. Well, I think I got the idea right before pandemic or like when we thought the pandemic would be like two weeks. So at the time. Well, not even at the time. My friend Zulfa is really into bts. So at the time, what she used to do, she would send. And I didn't know anything about BTS in 2020. So she would send pictures of like, some of the members and from different photo shoots they had done. And I would just write like, based on the picture she had sent me, like, what I thought the vibes were. So I'd be like, oh, I'm like, it's your brother's best friend. I would just like write like random scenarios which made no sense. [00:20:02] Speaker A: BTS fan fiction. [00:20:03] Speaker B: Yeah, Literally, I was writing a fanfic, but, like. And she would, like, kind of review afterwards. She'd be like, oh, that's not really like the person. She's like, that's not really, you know, RM's personality. But we'll let it slide, you know. So, yeah, so she used to send me, like, pictures and I would write prompts based on that. And it was. It was like a fun activity we would do. And then one of the prompts, one of the pictures she sent me, like, was of Jimin. And I kind of thought he looked a bit like a mafia boss in that picture. So I kind of wrote. The scene's actually still in the book. It's. I don't want to spoil it, but I'll send it to you afterwards. Or maybe I'll say it now and then you can cut it and then we will. And we'll put it back into a future episode. I don't know. That scene, like, starts from that prompt. Like, I. Like, I had written the prompt. So it's Jimin. It's Jimin. I'm sorry if that ruins the scene for you, but it's Jimin. So. So, yeah, so that was where it started. So that was where that scene started. And then around the same time, there was a bunch of different things going on around. Around the same time I was getting kind of irritated with the narrative that there were just a bunch of different shows and books that were coming out where it was like, oh, the brown girl's gonna have a rebellion, so she ends up with the white guy. And I was like. I'm like, we have a lot of these. I'm like, it would be fun to see brown girl has a rebellion and ends up with a brown guy. So the original first draft was actually pretty romantic heavy because that's what I was thinking of. And also because it was. At that point we were full pandemic, and I was like, anything to have fun, you know? So I was just, I need a. [00:21:41] Speaker A: Spark of joy in my life. [00:21:42] Speaker B: Yeah. I was like, I'm like, I need something that's, like, not depressing. So the first draft of Bargain was actually, like, pretty romantic, I would say, all the way up until Pitch wars, it had, like, a strong, ish romantic subplot. And when my mentors picked it up, they said, look like it's cute, but it is really undermining some of the tension. Yeah. They were like, the political scenes. They were like, combined with the romantic. They were like. They were like, this girl's making no sense. Her life is in danger. She can't be there staying while her life. Well, she could be. But they were like, it's just undermining a lot of the other plot points you're making. So they were like, you kind of have to sort of. Before they took me on as their mentee, they were like, we need to know from you how important the romance is in this book. Because if you want it to be like, a romantasy, they're like, we don't have advice to make it a romantasy, and it's fine. You'll have to go with a different mentor. But they're like, if your intent was sort of fantasy, then, you know, we'll help you revise it. So I was more. At that point, I was like, you know what? I want it to be more of a fantasy than a romantic. The romance was more for me to have fun. So I was like, okay. I'm like. So we went that direction. They were like, you can still have, like, some, like, tension between the two of them, but they were like, all the scenes that are, like, serious and, like, you're trying to make the reader feel like she's in danger. Like, you can't have her thinking about, like, romance right now. They're like, that makes. No, they can't be. It's a shootout. They can't be flirting during the shootout. Like, be serious. So I was like, okay, that's fair. [00:23:11] Speaker A: So, okay, so we've moved into your chronological timeline of Bargain at this point. So we also, at this Point have not even a pit for Bargain. So have you been asked yet or have you developed yet your elevator pitch for Bargain? [00:23:23] Speaker B: I mean, I've started not reading out loud, but like I've just referred to the publisher's marketplace pitch because I think that's one of the best pitches anyone's ever written for my book. Because when I start, I just start rambling. That is a common theme with me. Unfortunately, we've been here for like an over an hour now and like anytime you ask me a question, I will somehow get on like the least relevant topic. Okay, well, we'll simplify. We'll simplify. Adopted heiress. Okay, so it's about an adoptus heiress who comes back and uncovers a treacherous plot on her colonized island. And she, she strikes a bargain with a criminal leader to, to come out on top of this, I guess, political scheming. So there's a, there's a lot of different, like, things moving. I don't want to spoil it too much for people listening. [00:24:08] Speaker A: I've been in such a weird place when like talking about this book because we haven't put out the synopsis yet. So I'm always like, what am I allowed to say? [00:24:16] Speaker B: What do I say about this? Yeah, yeah. I was like, I'm like, I don't really know. I'm like, what to say. Whatever I've really posted has been on like close friends stories for people who've already read it. I'm like, wow, this post is so like Hasan coded. But like no one else will understand that reference yet. [00:24:31] Speaker A: But it makes me laugh every time I see it. [00:24:35] Speaker B: I think I took a picture of one of the like one of my copy edits. It was about like Zaya or something. And my sister responds to the story and she's like, hey now. She's like, what are you saying about empaths? Or something. Because I think it was a line. It was like, oh, I think he said like I can see her upset in a scene where like people have hit him repeatedly. So like, obviously people are upset at him. So I was like, so she's like. [00:24:56] Speaker A: Through his blood dripping, broken nose. [00:24:58] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:24:58] Speaker A: I have a feeling you might be a little irritated. [00:25:01] Speaker B: Me an empath. [00:25:04] Speaker A: So we have this political fantasy. We have dual POV political fantasy. We have an adopted heiress. We have a criminal gang leader. We have somebody who's stuck between cultures, somebody who's fighting against colonizers. So this started. It was your pandemic project in 2020. So you wrote that first draft. Was that first draft the one that was more romantic was the one that you submitted for Pitch wars. And was that in 2020? [00:25:27] Speaker B: I think the submission window was like fall 2020 if I remember correctly, or like November 2020. [00:25:34] Speaker A: So Pitch wars was essentially. Correct me if I'm wrong on this because I obviously never participated in Pitch wars. But Pitch wars ran for many years and it was like a once yearly thing, your pitch. And then a number of authors or agents or editors were volunteer mentors and would look through those and kind of pick ones out to decide if they were going to mentor this person. [00:25:55] Speaker B: Yeah, like they would have authors who were already agented and in some cases published. Like, I think you, like, towards the end it became like very competitive from what I hear. Like you kind of had to prove your jobs. So it was usually agented authors who had book deals or at least agents where like you knew that eventually they would have a book deal, like they'd been vetted and they would from like the slush, like pick like their mentees and then they would help you like revise your book. So you would do like a round of dev edits, like a round of like line edits. And then there was a showcase towards the end. So like agents would have to sign up for the showcase. And then like the advantage for agents was that you kind of knew that this book had gone through revisions already. So like you had a almost ready to sell book ready for you. So then during the showcase, like, agents would comment. And this was so nerve wracking, now that I think about it, because like, you could go on other people's pages and see like who had commented on their book. So like, if you had a dream agent and like you saw them like comment on someone else's book and not your book, I can't even imagine what that had done to you emotionally. Like, I went into it prepared to like, not have any comments. Like the night before, I was like, I looked myself in the eye and I was like, if there are no comments tomorrow, you will not get your feelings hurt. You know, I'm like, you can't have, like, you can't act weird, you can't be strange. And like, part of like pursuing publication professionally is you're not allowed to get your feelings hurt about what other people have. So like, that was the night before our show and I did get a bunch of comments, but I didn't find my agent through those comments in the end. So it would be several more years. [00:27:29] Speaker A: And for anybody who's listening who doesn't know Pitch Wars. Are you allowed to say who your Pitchwars mentor was? [00:27:36] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, it was Vaishnavi Patel and Sara Mughal Rana. So Vaishnavi is the author of I'm going to butcher the Pronunciation Kaiki and then Goddess of the river. And then she has one more coming out. 10 incarnations of rebellion. That's I think June this year. And then Sara has Hope Ablaze, which is a YA contemporary. And then dawn of the Firebird is her adult fantasy, which I think is either out end of this year or early next year. [00:28:05] Speaker A: Ooh, I don't think I knew that she had a next one coming out. [00:28:07] Speaker B: You may have to cut that if she hasn't announced before. Yes, I think she has announced it. I think she has. [00:28:16] Speaker A: So you submitted for Pitch wars, you got Vaishnavi and Sara for your, your mentees or your mentors. And then they help you revise it, they help you kind of go over it. And then you go into Showcase. You don't get an agent from Showcase. So where do you go after that? [00:28:31] Speaker B: Well, I mean, if we're being honest with each other, I probably spent like eight months on social media. Okay. So the day after Showcase ends, literally the day we ended the query charges, Pitchforce makes a post. They're like, we're shutting down. And I was like, oh. And I. I don't feel it was a volunteer run program and being like a working professional who doesn't even have. I don't even have kids or a family or. I mean, I have parents and a sister, but, like, I don't have, like, people who rely on me for anything. [00:28:57] Speaker A: Right. [00:28:57] Speaker B: You have dependence. I can't even imagine, like, having dependence and, like running this program, you know, monitoring like, the behavior of like, a bunch of like, new agents, new authors, and like, existing authors. Because, like, sometimes people did odd things during Pitch Wars. You know, we, like pitch wars had its fair share of, like, call outs. So I just feel like people retired. There wasn't enough. There weren't enough people willing to help with the administration of it. And they just decided, you know what? I can't do it anymore. So I respect that. Pandemic was also a hard time mentally for everyone. So the more space I get from it, the more I understand why things end up the way it did. It's just, you know, day one in the quarry trenches and I find out the program that got me in the query trenches is shutting down. So I was like, oh, okay. So that was like, day one, definitely. Like, I think after a year of Querying. I just, like, you know what? I was like, never mind. So there's a combination of things going on for me. In January 2022, I started a new role at my company. And then in February 2022, I entered the query trenches. So that was. I remember that being a very stressful period for me. So in October that same year, I got a promotion. Around the same time, I kind of felt like, you know what? Like, they're rewarding me at work for, like, my hard work. All my hard work has ever gotten me. And writing is ignored in the quarry trenches or, like, rejections. So I was like, I just need some time. I'm, like, away from all of this because good things were happening for other people as well. And, like, while on the night of, like, showcase, I was like, I'm not gonna compare myself. Like, at that point, I had started comparing myself. So I was like, this is kind of where I need to. [00:30:30] Speaker A: Yeah, it's human. Yeah. [00:30:31] Speaker B: I was like, I was. This is clearly not. Not good for me. And I'm like, I need to come back when I'm in a better place for all of this. So I, like, stepped. Like, I didn't. Like, whatever I wrote in, like, those few years, like, never became, like, a full book. Like, it was mostly me trying to figure out what I wanted to do after the Pitch wars book. But there was, like, always something that was in the back of my head where I was like, if the Pitch wars book wasn't good enough, like, I don't think any project is ever going to top that book. But now I'm more like, I hope. I hope to Bargain with Mortals is the worst book I ever write. Like, I hope. Like, sorry to everyone who's about to buy it and read it. But I'm like, I hope that's my worst book ever, because that means that every other book will be better. Everyone starts somewhere. So anyways, so I put it down for a while. Didn't really write a whole tonight. I put a lot of energy into, like, the day job and, like, my personal life. But I had friends. One friend specifically, like, Sidra, who was really, like, book's number one advocate. Like, probably at some point, she liked that book more than I did because I was like, this book ain't going anywhere. And she was like, no, this is the one. I know it's the one. And she would follow up, she'd be like, have you tried editing it again and sending it back out? What do you think? And I was like, I don't Know, Like, I've kind of queried everyone who I really wanted to query, but she was like, oh, new agents are popping up all the time. Like, have you seen. I was like, I'm not really checking. Like, it was kind of like those scenes where, like, people come back, like, and ask the spy to come back. And he's like, no. He's like, I left that world a long time ago. One last job. One last job. Yeah. So she comes back. She's like, one last job. It's like 2024, right? She's like, one last job. She's like, this is publisher Bindery. She's like, their books are pretty good. She's, you know, like, they seem pretty reputable. They're fine. Like, she. I think she knew what she was talking about as well, because she used to review books as well. So she's like. She's like, they're reputable. Like, they're good. She's like, I already. They're doing a open call for submissions. She's like, I already read everybody's page. She's like, these are the people you should submit to. These are the people who probably would have the best fit for you. Just submit it. She's like, you already have all your materials. She's like, just do it. So I was like, you know what? I'm like, I've already heard so many no's. What's one more note of the pile? So I submitted. And then in the form, and you know this story pretty well, in the form, it said, we will contact you in 12 weeks otherwise. And due to the volume of submissions, we can't send everyone rejection. So if you don't hear from us in 12 weeks. 12 weeks. Assume rejection at the time. [00:32:57] Speaker A: It wasn't even 12 weeks, was it? It was like. Wasn't it like four? [00:33:01] Speaker B: They gave a date. [00:33:02] Speaker A: They gave a date. [00:33:03] Speaker B: They're like, if you have a really big date. [00:33:05] Speaker A: Short date. [00:33:06] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:33:07] Speaker A: So at this point, you submit to Bindery. It's been at this point, essentially four years since you first wrote this book, right? [00:33:13] Speaker B: Yeah. Four years since the start of drafting. [00:33:15] Speaker A: Four years since the start of drafting. You've gone through pitch wars. You've gone through querying and, like, two. [00:33:19] Speaker B: Years since the last edit? Basically, yeah. [00:33:21] Speaker A: I did. [00:33:22] Speaker B: I did do an R and R for one agent. I think you got the R and R version. Yeah. Was the version you read partially in first person? [00:33:30] Speaker A: No. [00:33:31] Speaker B: No. Then you did have the R and R. Because when I did the Pitch wars version, I switched Poppy's character's POV to first person, and Hasan's was in third person, so it was, like, split. And then one of the agents asked me to put it all in third person, so I rewrote the whole book in third person. [00:33:48] Speaker A: The agent made you rewrite the whole thing in a different perspective and then didn't offer on it. [00:33:54] Speaker B: Yeah. They were like, oh, I just. Like, I'm still not feeling it. I was like, oh, no. I'm like, that's your right to say no. But also, like. Like, I'm holding a finger gun in my head right now. I was just like, all that, you know, like, oh, no. This is my. My 13th reasons. Yeah. [00:34:08] Speaker A: So from your perspective, this is where kind of, like, things pause for you for a minute. You submit to Bindery, and then you're just kind of waiting it on that form. I think it. I think you and I even had different dates. I think it told you four weeks, and it told me, like, six, maybe. [00:34:21] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:34:22] Speaker A: And giving us four weeks was crazy for that. So to kind of swap the sides of the story here and pick up where yours has dropped off at this point. My imprint is brand new. I started my bindery, and then within a couple weeks, they. They, you know, were like, we have a slot for a public, like, a publishing imprint, and, you know, we really like, what's going on with yours? Would you like it? I was like, sure. And the first thing is that I. This is, like, maybe a separate story. But when they. When Bindery first approached me to do a publishing imprint, I was like, I'm gonna cry in my car for a. [00:34:56] Speaker B: Little while because, I don't know, like. [00:34:58] Speaker A: I was so nervous, and I actually had them give me a little bit of time. I was like, look, let me think about this for a minute. I'm really, really nervous about that because my. Like, I immediately started catastrophizing, and I was like, okay, what if I, like, find a great book and then I ruin this author's life? What if I mess up so bad somehow and I ruined this author's life and I ruined my own life, and it was just. It was a nightmare for a little while. Eventually, I had some conversations with the team, and they're, like, literally not possible for you to do that. So, you know, don't worry about it. [00:35:30] Speaker B: But the. [00:35:31] Speaker A: The reason that we had wanted to get my imprint announced was because Pitchfest was coming up. So from the time that my imprint, like, was announced publicly and people knew it existed to the time Pitchfest started was two weeks. So I was like, nobody knows who I am. I'm not going to get any submissions. I'm really not that worried about it. It's going to be fine. We'll just kind of see what happens. And then Pitch fest opens. It's three days. I got 99 submissions. And I was. In my head, I was like, maybe I get like, eight. And they just kept coming in and coming in, and I was like, what do I do? What do I do now? I don't understand. I don't know how this process works. I don't know what I'm doing. I have a hundred manuscripts sitting in my lap right now, and they, like, they're all fulls. So I have, like, 100 manuscripts that are 100,000 to. One of them was, I think, nearly 300,000 words long. I was like, there's so much happening here. But now I got to figure it out, because I knew that on my end, they had told me, I think, six weeks. And at this point, I didn't know that they had told you four, but even six weeks, I was like, this is crazy. Like, I don't know that I can do this. And I just start going through it. I start doing, you know, anybody who's listening to this, who has also seen my Pitch Fest updates, kind of knows the. The process that I went through with that, which was that I read all of the pitch letters first. I kind of, yes, know those. I read all of my yeses again, kind of, yes, no, those again. And then I start reading manuscripts. And then I picked out, I think for that round, I had four manuscripts that I read in full, and yours I actually read twice because it was the first one that I read. And then I had pretty much decided at the end, I was like, I'm 99.9% sure I want this one. Let me read it again. Read it again. And it was like, okay, now I'm. Now I'm 100%. And that process took me like, seven weeks. So I was already running behind. I wasn't really sure, but I. I finally decided. I was like, this is the one that I want. And it was. It was also because yours was the first one that I read. And then I couldn't stop thinking about it, so I read three other full manuscripts. And while I was reading those manuscripts, I was like, these are good, and I'm really enjoying them. And, you know, XYZ reason. And I could not stop thinking about bargain the entire time. And I hadn't even meant to read yours when I did, because I. I Start my process by reading just like. [00:37:46] Speaker B: The first couple chapters. [00:37:47] Speaker A: And that's how I decided I'm going to read more. And so I'm reading the first couple chapters of them, I get to yours, I read the first couple chapters and then I blink and I'm 50% through the book. And it's 3 o' clock in the morning and I was like, oh, shit, okay. And then I went to sleep because I was. I had moved it onto my Kindle. It's 3am I realize I'm halfway through the book. I fall asleep, I wake up. It's the first thing I think about. I don't even get out of bed. I pick my Kindle back up and I finish the other 50%. And so I was like, that should have been the sign to just be like, yeah, offer on this. But in my brain I was like, let me go read the others again. And then. [00:38:18] Speaker B: Well, I mean, like, it's like whenever you, like, you see something, you're like, oh, do I want it because it's the first thing I saw, or do I want it because, like, I actually like it? No, I, like, I get that because, like, I. When I drove, when I test drove cars, I was like, did I like that car? I'm like, was it just like, I was having a good day and it happened to make a good impression on me, so I kind of get the vibe. Yeah. [00:38:36] Speaker A: So there was. It was kind of one of the things I would. I would go and read the other ones. And I was like, I'm enjoying it, but I'm still thinking about bargain. I'm still thinking about this other thing. And then I read it a second time. That was when I went through and, like, fully annotated it and, like, wrote all my notes on it. And I was like, okay, cool. Like, I want this one. I looked up my emails today. Like, I looked back in my communications with Shira, who. I don't know if you've met Shira. She's our acquisitions director. [00:38:57] Speaker B: I told her a lot at the start. Yeah, she was one of the. She left me the first voicemail. [00:39:01] Speaker A: Yes. [00:39:02] Speaker B: That day. [00:39:03] Speaker A: So I looked back at our communications, and I think my first communication with Shira about your book was on September 5th. So it was. It took me a while. It took me a while to get to me, like seven, seven weeks. And I messaged her and I was like, look, this is the one that I want. Here's my notes on it. Here's like, we had a meeting about it. And the meeting was really? Just, like, you want it? [00:39:21] Speaker B: Cool. [00:39:21] Speaker A: You got it. Let's go make an offer. So we go make an offer, and. [00:39:24] Speaker B: Then this is the story that you. [00:39:27] Speaker A: And I are, I'm sure, gonna tell forever. So this is. I've been saving this story for the podcast for both of us to be here, because nobody else who's listening to. [00:39:36] Speaker B: This knows this yet. [00:39:38] Speaker A: So when we go for Pitch Fest, it's. [00:39:42] Speaker B: It's. [00:39:42] Speaker A: It's on. It's not unheard of to, like, reach out for an agented submission and maybe not hear back or, you know, not really know. But for pitchfest for unagented authors who are, you know, coming in for an open call, we pretty much, like, we get responses very quickly because it's authors who are very, very excited about this and are, like, really looking forward to it. [00:40:02] Speaker B: This makes me sound so ungrateful. But, guys, I promise I'm so grateful. [00:40:07] Speaker A: It's gonna make me sound crazy in a second. So we. So essentially, I reach out to Shira. I let her know, and Shira emails you, because when you submit your. Your document, you also provide an email, so we know how to get in contact with you. So Shira emails you, and then I'm like, okay, exciting. And then, like, a day goes by, I'm like, have we heard anything? She's like, no. In a coup go by. And like, have we heard anything? She's like, no. And then, like, five or six days go by, I think. And she was like, hey, can. Can you email her? Because maybe she just didn't get mine. And can you reach out to her on social media maybe? And, like, maybe. And I was like, okay, so then I emailed you and then still didn't hear back for a few days. And then I started stalking you because. [00:40:46] Speaker B: You didn't have problematic behavior. [00:40:50] Speaker A: Yes, we've reached the behavior that could have gone an entirely different way. [00:40:53] Speaker B: Different direction. I, like, at the start, when you were taking on your imprint, you're like, will I do something that gets canceled? And then, like, six weeks in, you're like, okay, it's time to start stalking people. [00:41:02] Speaker A: Time to start cyber stalking people. [00:41:04] Speaker B: Yes. [00:41:05] Speaker A: Because you don't have any public social media, so you do now. [00:41:08] Speaker B: Yeah, at the time, like, when I. When I stopped querying, I also deleted my author, like, the not author Instagram, but, like, I deleted the Instagram I had made to keep up with my pitch wars friends, because I was like, I just need to be logged off until I'm, like, not a monster anymore. So. So, yeah, so I Had a personal Instagram for, like, friends who knew me in real life and then also, like, some of the authors I've been close with while during my time on book Twitter. But, yeah, that was the only form of social media that I was using. I don't have, like, a TikTok, no Snapchat, like, nothing. [00:41:37] Speaker A: Yeah. The saving grace of that was that I don't. I still don't know why you provided it, but I'm really glad you did. But you did give us your private Instagram account. [00:41:44] Speaker B: Yes, I did. And I don't know. I don't know why I did that because, like, I would have never used it as an author Instagram. I think I just felt like I had to provide something because I was like, wow. I'm like, this form looks so blank right now. I'm like, maybe I should just put something. [00:41:57] Speaker A: Because I think that was the only way that I knew your name. [00:42:01] Speaker B: Yes. [00:42:02] Speaker A: Outside of your pseudonym or outside of your initials. So I was like, okay, I have a name to work with. I can't get in touch with this account because it's private, but I can start Googling. So I start Googling you and where I'm pretty sure you're from based on the information we had from Pitch Fest. And I. I found. So I was like, okay, I have the right person. And I'm like, charlie Day meme over here, like, cross referencing different points of. Of, like, how do I reach this person? [00:42:25] Speaker B: This is validating the choice to use a pen name so hard right now. Yeah. Yes. [00:42:31] Speaker A: And then at some point, this was me being an idiot. At some point, I remembered that you had given us your phone number, because not everybody did. And so I didn't know. And I was like, wait a minute, I wonder. And I realized that we had your phone number. And I went, okay. So I emailed Shira. I was like, okay, we have her phone number, but we can try and contact this way. So then Shira calls you, does not get an answer, leaves you voicemail, tells me she's like, next day, she was like, okay, you try calling. So I call, you leave a voicemail. [00:42:54] Speaker B: And don't get anything. [00:42:56] Speaker A: So this is when the real problematic stalking comes in. [00:42:59] Speaker B: Did you guys leave me voicemails? The first I did get a voicemail, but I don't know whether you guys may have left me a previous voicemail. The thing is, like, my dad works in, like, cybersecurity, so sometimes he's like, never pick up the phone for a number you don't recognize. So, And I'll see area codes come in. I'll be like, oh, New York, Pittsburgh. Like, I'm like, I'm not picking. I don't. Like, I don't know anybody from these area codes. [00:43:19] Speaker A: Sacramento, California. [00:43:21] Speaker B: Who's this? Like, oh, I was like, nice try fishing people like, you know, I'm trying to give you a book deal. Please pick up your phone. [00:43:30] Speaker A: So I think at this point, the way that finally worked, but was the craziest thing that I did was that I Googled. I found just your, like, private Instagram name. And I didn't find anything from you, but I found one of your friends who had tagged your account. And from her post, I was like, okay, I'm pretty sure that they're close friends, so. And I could see that. I think I went and followed her. She followed me back immediately. So I was like, okay, so she's active online. And I sent her a DM and I sent her the craziest DM. I felt insane. I. I DM'd this poor girl. And I was like, hey, this is gonna sound really crazy. I promise. I'm not insane. I think you know somebody I'm trying to get in touch with. Can you please ask her to check her email? [00:44:18] Speaker B: You did actually follow me on Instagram as well. You tried to send me a follower. [00:44:22] Speaker A: I tried, yes. [00:44:23] Speaker B: Yes. And the thing is, like, so the friend in question is Alina Kawaja, who is the author of Maya's Laws of Love. Because I still have a decent number of bookish people on my private Instagram, I will sometimes get requests from other bookish people who think, like, this is someone else who's bookish. But I'll always decline them because I'm like, I don't know who you are. At this point in time, I had forgotten. Well, not even I'd forgotten. I hadn't checked my, like, follow request. I knew I had gotten a new follow request, but I kind of saw like. Like, something reads in the at. So I was like, oh, not a person in real life that I know. So I never went to review it and, like, check out the account that had tried to follow me. So it did come in. I did. I did review it later, and I was like, wow, my bad. So I. The order of events in which I received all of these communications. First I got a voice. Voicemail. And there's, like, an iOS feature where the voicemail is sent as a voice memo, as a text to you. So first I wasn't gonna open the message, except usually the spam calls aren't as long as the voicemails that you guys had left me. So then I became very curious. I was like, what do these people have to say? I'm like, what kind of scam is it? So I just wanted to open it and find out. The first one I opened was Shira. So I had a stroke. I had five minutes. I was going for Pilates in five minutes, and I'm listening to this voicemail, and I was like. I was like, shit. I was like, how long have they been trying to contact me for? Because back in, like, July, I'd upgraded my phone, never bothered to sign in the new email on the phone, and I wasn't checking email on the laptop anymore because I'm like, the. The date for, like, hearing back has passed. So I was like, clearly not me. Next. So, yeah. So I hear Shira's voicemail. I'm like, oh, shit. Then I open the. Then I go back. I'm like, someone else sent me a voicemail, too. So I go back to that voicemail, and it's your voicemail. And you had written, like, you were not written. You had said, like, you're like, I hope you're okay. And I was like, they think I'm dead. They were like, something happened to me. And this whole time, I've just been, you know, like, minding my business, going for Pilates, like, you know, like. I don't know, like, just doing different things. So. So, yeah. So I was like, wow. I was like, okay, I feel bad. So I text my friends. I send them a screen recording of the voicemail. I'm like, guys, I'm like, listen to this. And then they were like, oh, no way. And then, like, 10 minutes later, my friend goes, I got this DM. They were like, I think they've been trying to contact you for a long time. [00:46:47] Speaker A: I felt so crazy because I was like. I was like, this can go one of two ways. Either I'm gonna look like an insane person who has, like, severely crossed a line of somebody who's not trying to get in contact with me and wants to avoid me. [00:46:58] Speaker B: No. So I pretty much called back. I was like. I emailed back. Like, I was. I logged into the. Like, I tried. I couldn't remember the password. I was resetting the password. I was like, how do I get in this stupid email? So then I'm like, I email back. I'm like, it's me. I'm like, I'm still interested. I'm like, I'm very Sorry, I'm like, I just thought it wasn't me. So, like, I'm like, is it still open? So it was. Oh, my God. [00:47:18] Speaker A: And I. That felt like it took so, like, it felt like it was like, months. I think it was genuinely, like, two weeks. Yeah, I think it was like, two weeks before I lost my mind. It was like, cool, I'm cyber stalking now. [00:47:29] Speaker B: I'm glad you resorted to cyber stalking. And if in a way it was funny because my friends were like, oh, we think this is a good opportunity because she tried so hard. Like, you can see all the proof. Like, she was cyber stalking you. Like, she left you a voicemail email. Probably would have come to your house next if that didn't work. [00:47:44] Speaker A: Genuinely, my next step was that I was gonna send you a physical letter because you had also given us your address. [00:47:49] Speaker B: I gave you a lot of information for someone who didn't want to be found. Like, what did I give? [00:47:54] Speaker A: A lot of information. Like, I'm gonna send her a singing telegram to her door. [00:47:58] Speaker B: Yeah. So it's just contacting people in the area. It's like, can anyone go to this girl's house? [00:48:02] Speaker A: Like, calling, like, my three Canadian friends to be like, how this area? But, oh, my God. Yeah, that was. That was. And at a certain point in that process, too, Shira had kind of, like, was trying to, like, nicely let me down and be like, you know, this may not work out. It's gonna be okay. Is there anything else in your pile that you really like? And I was like, no, no, I just won. [00:48:23] Speaker B: I'm so glad you helped because I think if I, like, imagine I had written a second book, I logged in that email ready to query again and discovered that my inbox actually would have been the crash out of the century. [00:48:36] Speaker A: Well, I'm going to jump into traffic. [00:48:38] Speaker B: I don't, like, I don't even know. They'd have to lobotomize me or something. Like, I don't know what I would have done if I logged into my email, like, three years later with my freshly revised manuscript, ready to query a brand new project, and discovered your email there, I think. I don't even know. Like, I had nightmares about it for weeks, like, where, like, I woke up and I was like, did my email make it in time? I'm like, did they pick somebody else? Like, is it too late? [00:49:00] Speaker A: Well, I'm really glad it worked out. It has made for a very fun story. It was an incredibly. I'm not gonna lie. I was like, there were nights where I was crying. I was so upset. I was like, I want this book so bad. [00:49:12] Speaker B: My advice to all authors listening. Well, I mean, I don't have to give this advice. I'm probably the first author, like, in existence to not be glued to their inbox at, like, while actively querying something. But maybe, like, the lesson is, then don't give up. Don't let the date come and go. And then delete your Gmail app. Just leave the Gmail app there. There's no harm in leaving it there. [00:49:31] Speaker A: Just keep those notifications on just in case. [00:49:34] Speaker B: Yeah. At least have someone else watching your notifications if you're not gonna watch them yourself. Maybe I should have given one of my friends my Gmail password and let them monitor it. Oh, man. [00:49:42] Speaker A: So that was a crazy two weeks. We finally get a hold of you. We finally connect. You're still on board. I'm still on board. Everybody's. Everybody's excited. And then. So the other thing that I. Do we want to say what the original title was, or do you want to leave that for yourself? [00:49:56] Speaker B: No, we can say what it is. [00:49:57] Speaker A: Okay. So when I. I think. Because I look back at my pitch fest, the way that my pitch fest comes to me is that they're all. It's. It's. I get a big, giant spreadsheet with everything. And so in my spreadsheet, I make a notes column so I can just, like, write stuff down about it. And when I read your pitch, my first note, I was like, I made it. You know, I made it green. I was like, cool. I like this one. I want this one. And I looked at my. I looked back at my note, and the note just says, wow, I really don't like this title, but this sounds fantastic. Me too. [00:50:25] Speaker B: The backstory title was that I was calling the draft stormfire while it was just a word doc on my laptop. But I had to give it a title before Pitch Wars. And at the time, a blank of blank and blank was like the fantasy title format. So my friends were like, just pick that. You can change it when you get to showcase. I get to showcase. I tell my mentors I want to change the title. We couldn't come up with anything else. They were like, you know what? There's nothing wrong with your title. It's fine. I was like, I hate it. But I'm like, if you guys think there's nothing wrong with it, we'll go with it. So I can't find. I think Pitch wars might have deleted their website because I can't find my entry anymore. But it used to be up there with the old title. So it was A Reckoning of Flood and Flame, which again, like, very like, standard fantasy title layout. It's just that I wasn't a fan of it because I didn't feel like it fit the book. But I couldn't think of anything. Naming things bane of my existence. Terrible. I hate it. If I ever have, like, kids, like, God forbid, that kid's gonna be a reckoning of childhood and adulthood, like, I don't know. [00:51:24] Speaker A: So, yeah, I'm coming through my. My submissions and I get A Reckoning of Flood and Flame. And I think my initial thought was like, I don't love that title, but let's see. And then I read your pitch and I was like, this sounds really great. I think my actual, like, verbatim might say don't like this title, but sounds like the Jasmine Throne and the Final Strife, like, really interested in this. And then I went on to read it and love it and everything. And so I think when we had our first, like, face to face meeting, we had our first sort of zoom meeting. I think my. I was trying to very nicely be like, hey, how attached are you to the title? [00:51:55] Speaker B: I think I was. I was just like, oh, I hate it. [00:51:57] Speaker A: Yeah, you were like. [00:51:58] Speaker B: I was like, perfect. [00:51:59] Speaker A: Excellent. All right, then I have no notes and we're good to go. And then it obviously is now called to Bargain with Mortals. I think back when we announced the title, I looked at this across. We had like, an email chain with like four or five of us that were all kind of, like throwing titles and things. There were, I think, 57 different options. [00:52:15] Speaker B: In that email chain. Wow. I know. We went through a whole, like, ton. And then we just could not, like. I think Allegra suggested, like, something which, like, clicked something in my brain. And I was like, oh, I want this one. So, like that. I think that's how it worked. Allegra's my agent for people listening at home. [00:52:33] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, we totally skipped that part. So, yeah, you. We get a hold of you, we have a meeting with you. And then you did the thing that I think all authors should do when they are presented an offer unagented, is that you then went and found an agent. [00:52:45] Speaker B: Yeah, so I got the offer. I was like, I know I already wasted two weeks of your time by playing dead. I'm like, but can I waste two more looking for an agent? So they were like, okay, fine, but make it quick. So what I did was I queried in the End. I queried two agents. One was the agent who did the R and R with me where we made the whole thing. Third person. Because I was like, hey, like, remember you really like my book. And we did that revision together. I loved your feedback. Like, you know, I feel like I wouldn't have had this offer. It wasn't for your feedback. And if you're like, only qualm was you didn't know how to sell it. Well, congrats. Like, it's already sold. So you want to be my agent now? So that was one. So she was like, okay, like, give me two weeks, weeks to read it. And then while I was speaking to different bindery authors, the author of and the Sky Bled, as Hati, she was like, oh, here's like, some, like, free advice which, like, my agent has on how to deal with binary. Like, just like, different things you should look for in the binary contract. And I thought that was really nice of the agent to give that advice for free because, like, some people, like, will, like, gatekeep. They'll be like, no, well, not my client, not my problem. So I thought it was really nice of them to give that. And then as Hati was like, well, she's like, oh, I can also give you a referral if you'd like. So I was like, you know what? Like, this gives me a good vibe. So I was like, sure. I was like, send. Send the referral. Referral along. I'll submit it. So in the end, I queried R and R agent, and then I queried Allegra, and then Allegra offered first. So I emailed the other agent and I was like, hey, like, I have an offer. And she was like, that's great for you. She's like, I need, like, it's still a no for me. [00:54:19] Speaker A: So I was like, okay, wow, she's missing out. [00:54:21] Speaker B: The thing is, at that point, though, like, I had already called Allegra and I was like, I don't know how I'm going to break it to the R and R agent that even though I wrote all those nice things about her, I'm not even sure. Like, I'm like, I liked. I'm like, I was pretty attached. I'm already pretty attached to Allegra, so. Because now I was like, now I've really done it because, like, I wrote to the other agent and I was like, oh, like, you know, your. Your vision feedback got me, like, here and really want you to be my agent. And I'm like, now, I don't know, not That I didn't mean it. But I'm like, oh, the call with Allegra, I'm like, we really clicked. I'm like, I don't know if I have this chemistry with other people. I'm like, what's going to happen now? So in a way like she made it easy for me by stepping aside. So I'm grateful that it didn't become a whole thing. Yeah. [00:55:01] Speaker A: And Allegra has been great even from our side. And it's got to be nice to work with somebody who already has an understanding of bindery too. [00:55:09] Speaker B: Yeah, no, it's like an understanding of binary. Also like the whole part where they gave me free advice when I wasn't their client I think was just really endeared them to me. I also think the whole process, both of a bindery and with other stuff. Sometimes I'll email them and I'll be like, this gives me. I'm like, can you tell me if I'm being a diva or if this is not okay? And they'll be like, no, you're not being a diva. Or they'll be like, you know what, maybe we bark up the street later. They think provide good perspective. But yeah, overall like no, no regrets. [00:55:42] Speaker A: So yeah, we get in contact with you, you're able to get an agent. The deal is negotiated which shout out to Allegra and Shira for working out that deal. You got our first multi book deal which is very, very exciting. And then we get into like, then like things are moving. So like how, how has the publishing process been for you so far? Has it been pretty much what you expected? Has it been like way different? How are you feeling about it? [00:56:02] Speaker B: I think it's been better than expected. And like you hear a lot of horror stories, especially for debut authors. Like I've heard a variety of stories of like people who like will sign with editors and then like the vision is just different from like their own vision. And then the book that gets published in the end is not like the book that they wanted to write. So I mean I feel like super lucky. So like Matt, we used to call him Matt from Texas in the group chat just because like he would put like Texas in his emails and so we'd be like oh like Matt from Texas has a point here, stuff like that. So he was the dev editor for this like great like notes like there would, there'd be times where he'd point something out in the manuscript and I'd be like Matt, this is such a good note. I'm like, but this is, like, impossible for me to solve. You've put me in the worst pickle by writing this comment, because I can't solve this. I don't know what to do with this. So he was. He was really good. I think what I liked most about him is that he made, like, he pointed out issues and then he made suggestions. And then some of the suggestions I didn't want to take because I was like, I don't think this is what I'm trying to achieve with the book. So I don't like this suggestion. But how much? How about this? And he was like, yeah, that solves my original point. So I'm happy. So I think Matt was good at identifying problems without becoming attached to his own solutions. And I really like that quality about him. And the problems he pointed out, I think made the book a lot stronger for it. So great guy. I hope I get him back for books. Book two binder, if you're listening, please give me Matt back for book two. And so that was that one. So I like that. I think the COVID process also, out of all my friends who've been published, I think I have the most collaborative cover process out of all of them, because most people I know will kind of get, like, input on, like, here's a couple of our artists we're looking at. What do you think? Okay, great. Here's a couple of color schemes we're looking at. What do you think? Okay, great. And then the next email is, here's your cover. Right. [00:57:54] Speaker A: If you don't like it, too bad. [00:57:56] Speaker B: Yeah, like, okay, now what? Like, you know, that's. That's the COVID we picked for you, and that's the COVID you're getting. But I think, like, this, like, you. You and I have been in cover talks for a couple, like, for a few months now. [00:58:06] Speaker A: Yeah, we had our first one in mid October, and we just finalized it. [00:58:10] Speaker B: Yes. I came to that, like, I think at a Halloween party for our first one. So I was dressed, like, I was halfway in costume. I was. Was going as Wednesday Addams. So I had the shirt on, and I hadn't done the makeup yet. So I was like, I hope they don't think, like, this is, like, a thing, because I had my hair in, like, twit two, like, pigtail braids. I was. I was kind of, like, in the. In a middle transition phase when we did that call. So. Yeah, that's how long. That's how long ago it was when we kicked it off. But I think, like, the various rounds of that we did each reflected, like, a different. Like, it was like, next level commitment to perfect cover. Because there was. There were definitely points because I was looking at the old versions, I was like, there were definitely points where they could have put their foot down and been like, you know what, you're being a diva now. This is perfectly acceptable. You will eat what's served. But no. Charlotte and Megan and the whole team at Bindery, I think, were really dedicated to getting the ideal cover, which can't really say the same for everyone's experience that I've heard of. So I appreciate that. [00:59:07] Speaker A: Yeah, it's interesting when I talk with other publishers, like, you know, getting advice from other publishers on the Bindery side that are like, if you don't like something, say it. Like, you're in that meeting for a reason. Just say it. Which I think was the same thing I told you is, like, in traditional publishing, like, you know, at other publishers, you're not going to get this opportunity, you know, probably to be this in depth in it. So, like, say what you want, like, take advantage of it while you have it, and then we can do it all again for Book two. Although book two is gonna be fun because we already have ideas on, like, how we want to transfer book one's cover to book two. [00:59:36] Speaker B: Yes. That was a big stress for me too, when we were going through covers, because I was like, if I don't like the Book one cover, I'm like, they're going to take the same pattern and stick it on the Book two cover. Which means two covers that I'm not into. Or I'm like, I don't feel right. So I'm happy that we found a perfect cover, which everyone will see on Wednesday because that means we'll have a second perfect cover. [00:59:59] Speaker A: I'm so happy with it. It turned out so good. [01:00:01] Speaker B: And that was also another cute little twist of fate because I really loved Inferno's Ayers covers. Like, even before I was like a binary author, I thought it was a cute cover. I was like, wow. I'm like, this is my favorite cover out of the lot. And then when Charlotte sent the sketches over and she was like, oh, here. Or the final. Rather, when she sent the final over, she's like, here's the artist to credit. I was like, oh, of course. It makes perfect sense that this was also the Inferno's Air artist. No wonder I like it so much. [01:00:27] Speaker A: Yeah, it was crazy because we didn't even know who the artist was until we got the final because we got the Sketches. And they just said that they had brought on an artist. We were like, these are great. This is fantastic. And it wasn't until weeks later that she was like, oh, it's Dan Fenderberg, who also did the Inferno's air cover. And I guess Charlotte has worked with a ton in the past. [01:00:42] Speaker B: That was. [01:00:43] Speaker A: That has been just an absolute joy to go through. What a crazy process. So we've been doing cover for, like, four months now, and then at the same time, you've been in editing, so you've now gone through dev edits and line edits and copy edits. And I'm pretty sure I already know the answer to this question, but what has been your favorite and what has. [01:01:04] Speaker B: Been your least favorite? Dev edits were my favorite by far. Line edits, I think, is a close second. Like, I don't think there was a huge difference in those rounds for me. Line edits. The issue with line, like, dev edits was fun because I enjoy fixing big picture stuff. Right. Line edits is, like, where I started to sink into the overthink. Like, I think I had promised to turn it around at this, like, before Christmas break. Yeah. And I ended up, like, sending it, like, three, like, three or four days into Christmas break. But I was like, oh, it's not a big deal because no one's waiting for, like, everyone will probably look at it anyways when they come back for the new year. So if I take Christmas and Boxing Day, which apparently is not a thing in America, to edit my book, no one will really look twice if I took a couple extra days. So line editing was a unique challenge for me because suddenly I was doubting every word. I was like, why did I say that? Why did I pick this word? What if I put that word? What if I put that word instead? And then I would cycle back full circle to the original sentence, and I'd be like, okay, next sentence now. Next, next, Next one. So that was that one. And then copy edits was like. Like that. But like, on steroids. It was even worse. Like, no, like, and again, copy editors, like, the. The people who are doing my copyedits, edits, who made my style sheets, all of that stuff. Like, the sensitivity reader. All of them are angels. They sent me a whole. Like, it's like a dictionary of, like, all the words and places that appear in my book. They're like, do you think we could get a map? I'm like, I suck at real life geography. I'm like, I can't draw you a map of my, like, Fake book, chair. These are all places that, like, float in my brain and, like, they just get around to the places. Like, I can't draw. I'm like, I'm sorry, I can't draw you a map. They were like, over here you use this word like a noun, and then over here you use it like a verb. What is the correct usage of this word? And I'm like, it's a fake word. Like, I didn't think about it this much. They were like, you mentioned this character last name here and this character last name there. What is their relationship? Are they brothers, uncles? I'm like, I forgot I used the same name twice. I'm like, they have no relationship. Like the. [01:03:12] Speaker A: The ongoing problem of the timeline that, like, followed from dev edits down to copy. We were like, is it two weeks or three weeks? [01:03:20] Speaker B: I don't know. I can't remember anymore. I'm like, I'm like, I'm mixed up. I'm like, I don't know. I like, I'm like, you pick. I'm like, you guys decide. Whatever you like more, just change it to that. I'll be happy. Yeah. They were like, you said six weeks by boat and here that she said her journey was four weeks. Which is it? I'm like, I don't know. Which one did I say more of? Just go with that one popular vote. My other favorite thing was the removal of all the Canadian spellings and metrics. [01:03:47] Speaker A: Yes, America. [01:03:49] Speaker B: That was also really, really, really funny because there's one scene where I use the word color like 80 times on a page. So, like on the side it says like, copy editor deleted you. Copy editor deleted you. Copy editor deleted you. Because we were removing color out of every. Every single time. I like you from color. So I was talking to one of my, like, Alina Kawaja is also like Toronto based. So I was talking to her about it and she's like, I've started writing like an American. She's like, I'm just giving up. Like, the copy editor doesn't have to delete the U's anymore because I just like, off the bat, I'm spelling it like in American. And I'm like, that's crazy. I'm like, in this climate, girl. I'm like, put the U's back. So I'm like, I'm gonna start tariffing all the U's. [01:04:29] Speaker A: Yeah, all of the metric system stuff. I think every time there was a kilograms had to get changed to pounds. [01:04:34] Speaker B: Yeah, that's us. They were like, oh, are you really attached to kilometers? Or can we put in, like, miles? And I was like, I don't know what a mile is. Canadians have, like, a weird mix of measurements. We use kilometers and meters for distance, use pounds for weight. So I do know what a pound is. But I also know kilograms just from baking, because, like, y' all see grams and kilograms, where, when I'm baking things, Canadians use a mix. The one thing, though, I can't wrap my head around, miles. Like, I can do inches. Like, because I used to know. So, like, usually measurements are in inches. So I know inches. But miles, I don't know what a mile. [01:05:12] Speaker A: Kilometers are lost on me. [01:05:14] Speaker B: I don't understand Fahrenheit either. I don't know what that is. [01:05:17] Speaker A: Celsius. Celsius is meaningless to me. [01:05:20] Speaker B: Fahrenheit makes sense. Like, I vaguely understand Fahrenheit because someone was like, think of it like a percentage. Like, how percent hot is it? So, like, 66 is a low percent. So, like, that's kind of cold. And then, like, 88 is kind of hot. And then so I was like, okay, that kind of makes sense. But, like, for. For me, like, Celsius, I'm like, anything under zero cold. Everything, like, up to 25 degrees, comfortable. 25 and up. Too hot. [01:05:45] Speaker A: Whenever I. I've noticed I have enough of an international audience that like, like, you'll see when we get into summer that, like, I complain about the weather a lot. I live in California. It's very hot. And I got to the point where I was like, no, I need everybody to know just how hot it is when I'm bitching about this. So I will convert the Fahrenheit into Celsius just to complain about it. So I can be like, yeah, it's 40 degrees Celsius right now. I want to die. [01:06:07] Speaker B: The best thing Apple ever did for the group chat was, like, now, which we send a measurement, it automatically underlines it so you can tap and see what actually is in the conversion. So that did wonders for our group chat that Apple put that in there. So they removed all references to Canadian measurement systems and made them all American. [01:06:26] Speaker A: So I also get, like, the edit stuff. So I'll kind of scroll through them, just kind of see what's going on. My favorite edit, I think, was one of the copy edits, where there's a scene with Zehr and Hasan and it mentions their eyes and the edit. The edit, like, makes sense. But the way it was worded was so funny, was where they were like, we changed this to Say that they shared the same shape and color so that it doesn't sound like they share the same physical pair of eyes. [01:06:54] Speaker B: That also made me laugh. Like, you know, like. Or getting a long shirt. I was like, imagine if they were conjoined twins. I think they wouldn't have made it as far as they did if they were conjoined twins. [01:07:04] Speaker A: I think about the AR get along shirt every time I read a Hassan and Zeya scene. If you have siblings, I am very excited for you to read about brothers in this book. It was like, one of my favorite things as somebody who has a contentious relationship with my sister. I was like, this is fantastic. [01:07:20] Speaker B: Yeah, they have beef. But the thing is, like, they're also like, we're brothers. We shouldn't. We shouldn't be beefing like this. We love each other. And then the next thing will be like, I hate you. I think you're, like, the worst. You're actually the worst person in the world. [01:07:32] Speaker A: I'm actually gonna kick you down these stairs. [01:07:34] Speaker B: What is the most soul crushing thing I could say to you right now? Which I'll regret in, like 10 minutes, but I just need to say it right now because I'm mad you, like, it was pretty. Like, I think writing them was one of my. My favorite things. So I didn't mention this at the start when I was talking about the origin. But one of the other things was that when it started, it was supposed to be like a Hades and Persephone retelling. But my issue with retellings is I can never stay on, on track with the lore. Like, I always end up just doing my own thing. So I dropped that pretty much entirely from the pitch because I was like. I'm like, we are so far beyond that now that I don't even, like, I can't respectively claim any kind of comparison here. But you'll notice there's still little hallmarks of it in the drafts. Like their names, like Hassan, H. Hades, Zaire, Zeus, her. And J, like, Poseidon. Poppy's name, P. Persephone. That's actually why she's named Poppy, because of the Persephone reference. So my mom asked me, she's like, is that a Bengali name? And I was like, mom, it's a flower. I'm like, it's not a Bengali name. I'm like, not everything is, like, Indian. So, no, that's what it used to be. And all the brothers used to have powers related to that, like the old Greek myths. But in the end, like, in the final draft, like, Readers will discover Paranjay and Zaire have both have air now, because I can't explain why, but we'll. [01:08:56] Speaker A: Explain why in the spoiler cast down the line. [01:08:59] Speaker B: Yeah, that was one of those editing. [01:09:01] Speaker A: Fixes that, like, was you could kind of just change a couple words and a couple sentences and fix a giant plot hole and you're like, oh, yeah, exactly. [01:09:09] Speaker B: It was the easiest fix that I'd never thought of because of this original. This is what it used to be. Each brother has their own power thing. [01:09:16] Speaker A: That's crazy. I don't think I knew that. I feel like the next time I read it, I will look for that. But yeah, that's definitely one of those that you would never guess that it would never even enter your mind. [01:09:25] Speaker B: We are so far removed from that first book. I mean, even the first draft just departed immediately from the myth because, like, in the first two chapters, I was like, okay, like, he kidnaps her and they fall in love. Great. Hades and Persephone done. And then the rest of the book had made no sense. [01:09:41] Speaker A: If you look at the original, I think even hearing. Because I think one of the first things we talked about was that initial draft where you had said it was more romantic and, like, most of that is not in there either. [01:09:49] Speaker B: I was like, this was a. [01:09:50] Speaker A: This was romantic at one point. [01:09:51] Speaker B: Like, that's crazy. [01:09:52] Speaker A: And that's at least one where you can kind of find something in the diction there that you're like, oh, I can see how this would have been in a previous thing. And now it's just totally different. [01:10:01] Speaker B: Yeah, like, each, like, this is technically my third book idea, but, like, each book has had so many. Like, the first book I wrote in university, the first few years university had like, three revisions that were basically separate books on their own because they each had their own magic system. Like, the second book I wrote also had very, like, insanely different revisions. So, like. Like, even though they're the same characters, like, I feel like each book is almost fanfic of itself until it reaches final form because it changes just so radically. [01:10:31] Speaker A: Oh, man. Even, like, going back to the. So I've read the two versions now. The one that you sent me and then the one post Deb edits. And like, even looking at how, like, the prologue did not exist, there's, like, a whole first chapter that just didn't exist when. The first time I read this book. [01:10:47] Speaker B: I like the new one a lot. Thankfully. I can't remember, how did the old one start? Oh, I remember how the old One started now, but yeah, this one, this one is better for it. It's like interesting which parts are newish and which parts have been. Because like, like I said, like the one that was based on that Jimin, like I love that that in there persisted that has survived like we remember our, our roots that survived all of these drafts, but other things have just died and like other parts are just net new entirely. So it'll be interesting I think for book two because the thing is like book one, I can change the rules as many times as I want because no one has seen them yet. Book two, now I have put myself in a box and I have to figure my way out of the box and I spend a lot of time. So I've been trying to draft my way around the box to see like what my walls are and it'll be interesting to see how much it changes between drafts. So I think Bindery has a deadline of end of this year for me to hand in a copy for dev edits. But I'm trying to finish a draft sooner than that so that I can decide how radically I'm going to change it. Because I don't, I don't think binary will play with. I changed everything. Here it is now. [01:11:59] Speaker A: So how is that, I mean, how's that going for you so far? So you're working on book two now. We won't get into it. I don't want to stress you out too, too much. But you're working on book two now. So this is your first book on deadline. Your first book that like you don't have to sell. Like it's already sold you. You got it in the bag. How is, how is it feeling drafting this one? [01:12:16] Speaker B: I mean it's, it's coming easier than like all those little projects I tried to start. But like while I was unagented and unbinderied. But because mostly because I feel like I have these existing characters and like I knew their story wasn't done when I finished. I was like, it could. I'm like, the story is over in a way. I think that's like, it closes most of the questions for the reader. But I'm like, I know there's like more like that would happen to them after this. So I'm happy that I get to write it. I think what's interesting to me right now, I've been reading a lot of books that have sequels because I'm like what makes a satisfying sequel? I'm like, the four act structure now also has to behave a Little differently. Because in Act 1 of a brand new book, you are setting up brand new characters for a reader. Act one of us, book two. I don't want to be like, here's this person. Do you remember them? Great. Here's this person. Do you remember them? [01:13:09] Speaker A: Great. [01:13:10] Speaker B: Here's this person. Do you remember them? Like, so I'm like, the setup has to be a little different. And then the other thing, I was like, it needs to make sense because I had started writing it. And then when I was doing copy edits, I was like, the place I've started my book feels disjointed from where I left book one because I would like, and I can't. Maybe in spoiler cast, I'll talk more about it, but there are characters who get along at the end of book one will stop getting along in book two. And I'm like, I've started them in a place where they already don't get along. So reader is gonna be like, what happened? Like, I thought we were all good. [01:13:44] Speaker A: So wait, you know what? I just forgot. You sent us, like, first pages of a book two way back in the beginning. [01:13:52] Speaker B: Yes. The prologue has stayed because the prologue takes place in the past. So I'm like, I really liked that prologue. I thought I was doing something with that. We'll see. We'll see if it stays. [01:14:02] Speaker A: That's a really good mirror, too, now that we have the other prologue in the first book. [01:14:05] Speaker B: Wow. I don't know why that didn't occur to me. Yeah. So I like that. I like that prologue. I feel like book two, like, even when I was doing copy edits, the sensitivity reader pointed things out where, just because of the time crunch, I was moving on. I'm like, I can't address everything that they said in this manuscript in a satisfactory way. I'm like, I can address it at a surface level so people don't think that I endorse certain negative views, but, like, I can't, like, dig into, like, they were like, oh, like, maybe, like, introduce a character who positively reflects this identity. And I was like, it's a little too late to put somebody new in here, but maybe in the next book, I will focus on developing characters with that same identity so that it's not neglected, like, when you look at the story as a whole. So certain bits of feedback all the way through to this point are gonna form this sequel. My main problem that I'm trying to figure out at this point, I kind of know what Hasan's growth arc is gonna be. It's Poppy's growth arc. I don't wanna. I don't wanna erase her growth arc from book one, But I also need a conflict for book two, because if she's like, I'm perfect now and I'm fine, then it's a boring story. So I have to figure out what's. What's. What's her. I'm like, what's your problem? I'm like, so we'll. We'll figure it out. Oh, my babies. [01:15:23] Speaker A: My babies. [01:15:24] Speaker B: And also to figure out who I'm gonna kill. I still. You asked me a while ago, like, any character deaths? And I'm like, not yet. I'm like, but someone should die because it is a fantasy. So I'm like, once I decide, we'll figure it out. [01:15:35] Speaker A: So if you're listening to this and reading book two and there's some sort of devastating character death, don't blame me. It wasn't me. I didn't do it. So Bargain won't be out at the time that we're recording this. Bargain is not out for another nearly eight months. I think by the time that we put this out, the release date will be out. So I think at this point we can say October 28, which definitely nobody has already figured out. [01:15:59] Speaker B: The release date is already on. Like, certain. [01:16:01] Speaker A: Nobody has already seen it. [01:16:02] Speaker B: It's definitely not already in the retail website. [01:16:05] Speaker A: Somebody. Somebody finally. I don't know if I sent it to you. Somebody finally asked me in Disney Discord. They were like, is this the date? And I was like, I can neither confirm nor deny. You didn't see that. [01:16:14] Speaker B: I think, like, someone tagged me in their, like, most anticipated, and I was so excited to share the most anticipated. I didn't realize that they'd also put the. The publication date, which they got right. And they got right, but they got it right. Yeah. I was just like, oh, none of us have said it yet. So I tried to play it off. [01:16:31] Speaker A: In Discord, where I was like, oh, there's like a handful of binder release dates. Some of them are going to be on different dates. [01:16:35] Speaker B: And I was like, yes. [01:16:36] Speaker A: No, that is. [01:16:36] Speaker B: That is, in fact the correct date. [01:16:37] Speaker A: But we've been holding off, I think, until we have the COVID so that we can kind of drop everything all at once. So at the time that we're recording this right now, we're just under eight months to publication, which is very, very exciting. So in the meantime, while people are waiting for Bargain to come out, what would you recommend they read? Like, what would you and this can be like, what do you have any personal recommendations? Do you have anything like, you know, here's something to whet your appetite for. What bargain is going to be? [01:17:03] Speaker B: I mean, there's always Aragon. We'll start there. Like, if, if you want to know my roots, like, you should go back and read Eragon. It's got nothing to do with. To bargain with mortals. There are no dragons in my book. I wish, but I just always like, thinking of Eragon has made me. I'm gonna read Eragon, I think this year after this. Jade City, I think was one of a huge, like what it was a very big influence for to bargain with mortals. I want everyone to know that my book is worse than Jade City. Like, if you like, I'm very. This book is pretty self aware. I know I'm not like George R.R. martin or anything. I know I'm not like R.F. [01:17:41] Speaker A: Kuang, but we gotta work on that confidence. [01:17:44] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm like, like, I like. I think it's a good book. I'm like, but if you're looking for like books that like, feel like Game of Thrones, like, you should probably go look somewhere else. It depends on what kind of fantasy reader you are. So Jade City, I think was a huge influence for me, like the sibling relationships that they have in that book. There were two things, I think that, that compelled me a lot about Jade City. It was the relationships between these siblings, like, that were intriguing to me. And then the other thing is this great tool that Fonda Lee uses called Actions have consequences. So every time she has someone in that book do something, especially something they're not supposed to, or like, make a, like, decision that I'm like, oh, great, this is gonna come back and bite, bite the character in the ass later. Because like every time the character does something, she follows it up with the convict consequence later. So you learn pretty early in the book that if she puts something there, you're. You're gonna see it later. So whenever they do something like, like Hilo will kill somebody and you're like, oh my God, Hilo, you're gonna lose like an arm or something. Now it's, it's a rule that if you do something, you're gonna get it back twice as bad. So I love that idea that actions have consequences. So I tried to as much as I could do that in my book, where every time like one of the characters takes an action, I'm like, I need that action to come back later. Or at least like, have a resolution. Like, poor Hasan I feel like Hasan gets the worst of that. Yeah, Hasan always making bad decisions. And then later he's like, surprised Pikachu meme when it comes back to bite him in the wrong way. So, yeah, so, like, Jade City was a huge influence. Tasha Suri's books were also, I think, pretty formative. Like, I think there was a less direct one to one translation. But hers were some of the first South Asian fantasies, adult fantasies that I started reading. I read some of Roshani. [01:19:39] Speaker A: Roshani Chakra. [01:19:40] Speaker B: Yeah, Roshani Shokshi's books when I was a teenager. Her yas, but I haven't read. I think she has a new one that's come out. What is it called? [01:19:49] Speaker A: Yeah, she had Last Tale of the Flower Bride last year. And then she has the Swan's Daughter that she just announced. [01:19:53] Speaker B: Announced. [01:19:53] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:19:53] Speaker B: So I. I don't think it was. I think I read Flower Bride. I think it was the last one in her trilogy that I've not read. [01:19:58] Speaker A: Oh, the Gilded Wolves books. [01:20:01] Speaker B: Yes. Oh, I love those. So I. I enjoyed those a lot. Those were pretty. Those are like, ya. But, like, I still. I still like those a decent amount. Obviously, our. I'm really excited to read. I've been saying it wrong this whole time. I just heard an audio of her saying Katabasis. [01:20:16] Speaker A: Okay. So in our defense, because I also said Catabasis. She has been saying Catabasis for years. It's not until now that she has started saying Catabasis. And I was. So the first time I heard that, I was like, no, please, I don't want to change it. [01:20:30] Speaker B: How I've been saying this podcast. When you said, you want to do a podcast, I said, yes. Knowing that I was like, people are going to comment and be like, why did she pronounce that word that way? It's because I read more than I talk. I actually don't know how to say a single word. [01:20:42] Speaker A: It's okay, we'll blame it on you being Canadian every time. [01:20:46] Speaker B: That's the Canadian accent. Just go straight into gaslighting. I think thematically my book relates more to Babel than to the Poppy War. But Babel is a really ambitious, like. Like, the magic system is entirely unique. Mine is a more like, elemental magic system, which. [01:21:02] Speaker A: Well, and thematically, like, there's huge parallels. I think one of the first things I said to you when we had our first meeting was that, like, I was thinking about Babel a ton while I was reading this. And then, like, in ways that I can't say without being Spoilers. So we'll talk about it in the spoiler cast. But I had a lot of thoughts about Babel while I was reading it. [01:21:18] Speaker B: Yeah. So I would say Babel, I'm gonna like unrelated books to like my book. But just like shout out for the homies. Zilpha Khattu is my friend. She wrote as Long as the Lemon Trees Grow. If you enjoy crying, you should read that book. If you don't enjoy crying, you should read that book. My friend Alina, she wrote Maya's Laws of Love. That book was diabolical. She told me. She fully told me the plot twist. Okay. So I knew what was coming, but I still gasped at 3 in the morning. When I got to the twist, I. [01:21:46] Speaker A: Was like, no way. [01:21:48] Speaker B: I'm like, Even though I knew, like, she asked, she's like, do you think it would be like, messy of me if this was the reveal? And I was like, you're asking the wrong person. Go for the messiest possible version of plot. So. But I was like, I was hooked. So that's. That's her debut. It came out last year. The book she has out this year is writing Mr. Right. When it comes out, I'm excited to get my copy. I feel like Jade City and Tasha City are my favorite comps. I just got the Bridge Kingdom. I haven't read it yet. That's my confession. But a lot of people have referred this to me, so if you want to read it with me, you can read it. I don't know when this is coming out. I may have already finished it. Actually, you know what? I'm doing my Legendborn reread this month. [01:22:29] Speaker A: Because I'm reading bloodmarked right now, and I'm stressing about it because I was trying to finish by tomorrow, and I have 13 hours left on the audiobook. [01:22:39] Speaker B: It's funny because as soon as we drop that cover, I am logging out. I'm like, none of you will spoil me. I'm like, I need to. I need to launch the COVID I need to launch pre order campaign. And then you will not see me until that book is done. Because, like, Tracy posted this thing where it's like, oh, like the experience to the book is really important. Like, no spoilers. And I was like, oh, someone's gonna ruin this for me. So anyways, I'm. I'm so, like, I'm actually locked in. Like, I wanted to take a day off work. I don't think I'm gonna get the day off, but it's a calling in sick to work. It's like, sorry, I can't. [01:23:10] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:23:12] Speaker B: So I think, like, two of my co workers know about, like, my book, and it's mostly because, like, my boyfriend put it on his Instagram story and they follow him. So they were like, is this you, Arabasu? Is that you? And I was like, yeah, it's out. So two of my co workers know about, like, my alter ego. The rest of them don't. Part of, like, the reason for a pen name was that if someone googles my LinkedIn, I don't want the books to come up, and if someone Googles the books, I don't want my LinkedIn to come up. So. [01:23:41] Speaker A: Yeah, well, you know What? We'll have ARCs bargain. [01:23:44] Speaker B: Yes. Soon. Oh, my God. [01:23:46] Speaker A: I'm, like, unprepared, and it's your book. I can't imagine how you're feeling. Like, I'm, like, unprepared for the idea of holding it. [01:23:52] Speaker B: I actually don't mind the idea of strangers reading my book that much. It's like my relatives, where, like, I'm like, I don't know what to. Because it's like this weird scenario because strangers don't know me, right? Like, they have no opinion about me. These are people who kind of have, like, half an opinion. Like, people who are close to me. I don't mind if they read the book and talk to me about it because, like, I'm happy to have that discussion, but it's more like people who, like, I. [01:24:17] Speaker A: Middle. [01:24:17] Speaker B: No, it's like, we're acquaintances. Like, we're relatives. We're acquaintances. So I don't want them to ask me about, like, my politics because, like, it's pretty clear what my politics are from this book. If it's. Every book is political, by the way. If you're listening. If you think a book's not political, read it again. But, yeah, I'm like, I don't know whether I want to have those discussions about politics. Like, there's a bit of, like, Poppy's journey where she feels, like, insecure and, like, her right to claim her heritage. Where I'm like, I don't want anyone to ask me, as for a child, like, about that feeling. So it's kind of like a mix. And then there's also, like, discussions I've had with my parents, co workers, where sometimes they'll be like, oh, yeah, like, I love a Court of Thorns and Roses. Is your book like that? And I'll be like, no. I'm like, technically, I'm like, it's the same age group. I'm like, but they're not really the same book. Oh, this is actually funny as hell. So I was at dinner with my two of my cousins, my sister, my boyfriend and his. My cousin's. I almost said his, like, my boyfriend's girlfriend. But, like, his as in my cousin, my cousin's girlfriend. And one of my cousins asks, would you ever publish a book? So, like, me, my sister and my boyfriend. I'll go quiet because, like, at this point, we've just gotten fine green news, right? So then he's like, what? What did I say? So I was like, I do actually have a book deal. So he's like, that's crazy. He's like, I'm a psychic. The other cousin, his girlfriend, she's like, like, is it smut? And I was like, what a weird. [01:25:44] Speaker A: Thing to ask somebody. [01:25:46] Speaker B: Well, I was dying. I mean, like, I was. I was like. I was like, dead. I was like. I was like, I appreciate your enthusiasm. And you're like, you know, sex positivity. I was like. But really, I was like. So I was like, no, it's not smut. I'm like, all of my, like, family speaks and reads English. I'm like, I can't write smut right now. Like, not in the first book. I gotta wait for everybody to fall off and least a little bit. And then it's always interesting because there's some authors I see who are like, yeah, I sent my parents my book with the sex scenes. And, like, they were all cool. And I was like, wow. I was like, I don't think my parents would say anything, but it's just the fact that they know I know. Which, like, I don't think we have that kind of relationship. So I was like, my parents don't really enjoy fantasy as a rule. Like, I think. I think we saw the Hobbit movies when they were coming out, like, in theaters. That was, like, a thing. But for the most part, any science fiction show, fantasy show, they don't really watch. They've never seen Game of Thrones, never seen the Witcher. They really like contemporary historicals. My mom was a big Gilded Age fan for a while, which I also really liked, but for the most part, no sci fi fantasy. So when I wrote this book, and, like, this will not protect me, but I was like, okay, this will put some distance between me and the relatives who, like, I'm concerned about them reading my book. But my mom was like, you know what? She's like, I'm willing to try Fantasy for you. And I was like, I love you so much, but you don't have to do that. Like, just buy the book and don't open it. Yeah, like, it's. It's interesting because writing has been, like, a solo person activity for a while. Like, me, like, a couple of people who also like writing my sister. And now suddenly, like, that will get scaled out. I don't know. It might be different if anyone else has, like, the same thoughts as me about it's okay for a stranger to read it. But, like, my uncle, who I see twice a year, Christmas and Easter, like, it might be weird if he reads it. Let me know, like, what you think. It was actually, like, so bad at Christmas. Like, my relatives were asking me about it because I didn't want to say anything about it. So I wasn't telling anyone because I was shy. But my mom told one aunt. And then during the, like, grace. Because, like, I have a great aunt who, like, was like, we all need to say grace now before we eat. After the grace, one aunt goes and like, you know, book deal or something. Like, you know, oh, sorry, I just doxed myself. Ra's book deal. So, like, oh, Ra has a book coming out and just silence. Everyone's silent. There's like 40 people also at it. I was like, oh. I was like. So then, like, during, like, dinner, everyone kept coming ask me about it. And she was like, hope I didn't put you on the spot there. And I was like, no. I'm like, totally not. Yeah, definitely not. You definitely did not put me on the spot there. Like, they were asking me, what's your book about? And I was like, blanking because I had a couple of, like, drinks too. So I was like, oh, like, you know, I'm like, it's about, like, it's a fantasy. I'm like, it's for adults. Like, there's revolution and politics and, you know, like, it's a. It's a book. Like, you can get it when it comes out. [01:28:55] Speaker A: Buzzwords. [01:28:56] Speaker B: Yeah. So I emailed Allegra afterwards. I was like, allegra. I was like, people kept asking me about my book, and I didn't know what to say. Is this normal? Like, do people panic? Because I'm like, I can pitch it online. I can talk about it online as much as I want behind the safety of my screen. I'm like, when I was. When I was being asked in person, I'm like, I kind of blanked. I'm like, do you have any resources for people, People who are scared. I was like, talk to people. And they were like, not really a problem I've had. Like, we've seen before. They're like, I'll look out for blog posts. But they're like, if. They're like, if it makes you feel better, we don't have to like do a lot of in person promo. Like, maybe. And I was like, again, it's not even the in person promo. I'm happy to go to a bookstore and talk to people I don't know. I'm like, it's family. Allegra. Do you know how to talk to your. So anyways, we'll figure it out. I'm sure everyone will be much cooler. Again, I'm overthinking it. But like, for now, there's no spot in my book. By the way. People were wondering. That's my answer. [01:29:47] Speaker A: That's why you have to save all of it for book two. [01:29:49] Speaker B: And suddenly it's half the book. I pulled a good old switcheroo. [01:29:53] Speaker A: So I think, I think that's where we're gonna leave. I think that's. We've been, We've been on here for like, oh my God, it's been like two hours probably including all the time that we tried to make this work. It was so bright outside and now it is pitch black on my end. I'm really glad that you. Because in my head I knew that we were recording this today. I like had a remembered. And then you mentioned seven and it for some reason didn't occur. Like in my brain, we had been recording at seven and I was like, oh, that's. No, that's four o'. [01:30:16] Speaker B: Clock. [01:30:17] Speaker A: That is four o' clock for me. And in my head it was seven o' clock for both of us. [01:30:21] Speaker B: I think part of why it was so hard to coordinate, because it's like I get off work at 5pm but that's like 2pm for you. And then like, even if I wanted to start earlier, like let's say like on Saturday at like 8:00am, that's like 5:00am for you. [01:30:35] Speaker A: I'm not 5:00 clock in the morning. [01:30:37] Speaker B: Wake up at 5:00am and start recording. Like, I'm more of a night owl, thankfully. So sometimes when you text me and it's like 2 in the morning, I'm still awake. I'm like, yeah, I'll respond right away. But then I. I do have a bad habit of falling asleep in the middle of whatever conversation we're having. [01:30:52] Speaker A: I do the same. It's fine. So, okay, so we've had. This is our initial, and I think you and I talked about this. And for the viewers or for the listeners, I think we're kind of thinking we might do two more of these. We'll do one more conversation shortly before the book comes out. We have a little bit more information, a little bit more we can share. We'll let you guys kind of ask some questions now that we know. Know more about the book. And then I think we want to do like a full. Full spoiler cast after the book is out for people to listen to after they've read, and we can just go. [01:31:20] Speaker B: Full in on the plot. [01:31:21] Speaker A: Here's what happens. Let's talk about this scene and this scene in this scene. [01:31:24] Speaker B: Yes, exactly. [01:31:25] Speaker A: Which is half self indulgent because, like, I just really want to talk about the book with somebody who's read it, because I can't. I have one friend of mine who's been my sounding board pretty much since Pitch Fest, where I was like, I'm gonna explain the plot of all of these books that I'm reading to you because I need to get them out of my brain. We've got. We've got about a little under eight months to go. And, yeah, we're gonna start getting arcs soon. We're gonna announce covers. It's all. It's all happening. [01:31:50] Speaker B: I'm really excited. I'm. I'm mostly excited to see the COVID reveal. I'm sorry to whoever said bug, by the way, on the Discord. Not a book. There are no bugs in. To bargain with mortals. No bugs. [01:32:02] Speaker A: No bugs to be found. [01:32:04] Speaker B: I don't know. There's so many versions of this that sometimes I'm like, there's a line in there and it's just gone. It's been gone forever. But I remember the line. I felt so bad. Our cover artist or covered, like our director. Yeah, art director. Yeah. She came back to us after one of the div edits, and she was like, I felt so inspired by this line. And I messaged Allegra on the side, and I was like, I cut that line. I. I was like, should I put it back? I was like, what do I do now? I'm like, that line is gone. It meant nothing to me. So she was. She was really like. She said, I love that line. I thought it, you know, meant a lot. Like, she had really nice things to say about that. Like, quote. And the whole time I'm like, it's gone. I'm like, I cut it and it's gone. I was like, opening word. I was like, put it back, put it back, put it back. [01:32:51] Speaker A: Going to track changes. [01:32:53] Speaker B: Where was it? I'm like, I'm like, for you, Charlotte, I will put it back. And I think it might have come back in some form in the end. [01:33:01] Speaker A: I don't know. [01:33:01] Speaker B: I've seen so many versions of this, I can't tell you what's in or out of the book. [01:33:04] Speaker A: I can't imagine. I think at this point, I've read it three times, and I've only known about the book for, like, 10 months. [01:33:10] Speaker B: It's like a multiverse now of different versions of them. You know that meme where it's like, do you think we're blank in every lifetime? It's like Hasan and Sayar and it's like, do you think we're insufferable in every draft? [01:33:23] Speaker A: Yes. Yes. [01:33:25] Speaker B: That's the only consistent thing. [01:33:29] Speaker A: All right, well, this has been a fantastic time. We'll bring you back on in some number of months for the next time. Thank you for joining, and thanks, guys, for listening. [01:33:38] Speaker B: I enjoy apping. [01:33:39] Speaker A: Okay. I guess that's the other. So not only do I not know how to start a podcast, I don't know how to finish one. So I guess that's that. Oh, where can people find you online? [01:33:47] Speaker B: Oh, I'm on Instagram. Sorry. Ra Basu writes on Instagram. I blanked. I could only remember my personal handle, and I was like, I don't want to push people there. So that is. [01:34:00] Speaker A: That is the level of professional promo you can expect from us in the coming months as we figure this out. [01:34:07] Speaker B: I'm telling you, if it's not a screenshot, I don't remember it. I think I have to screenshot all the pages of my book so I don't forget it. [01:34:13] Speaker A: So thank you, guys for listening, and we'll catch you on the next one. [01:34:16] Speaker B: Bye.